| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bibliogeek
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 8
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: CELTA v. TEFL - does an MS make a difference? |
 |
|
Hi. I have a master's degree (not in English nor education), a Bachelor's degree in a liberal arts field, and no teaching experience (yet!). I'd like to teach in Thailand or Indonesia, maybe Latin America at a later date.
Any advice on whether I should do TEFL or CELTA?
I know that the CELTA qualifies you to work with adults, but does it prevent you from getting a job teaching kids?
There have lots of posts about TELF v. CELTA, but I don't know if having a master's degree makes a difference. Obviously the lack of teaching experience is going to hold me back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: Re: CELTA v. TEFL - does an MS make a difference? |
|
|
| bibliogeek wrote: |
Hi. I have a master's degree (not in English nor education), a Bachelor's degree in a liberal arts field, and no teaching experience (yet!). I'd like to teach in Thailand or Indonesia, maybe Latin America at a later date.
Any advice on whether I should do TEFL or CELTA?
I know that the CELTA qualifies you to work with adults, but does it prevent you from getting a job teaching kids?
There have lots of posts about TELF v. CELTA, but I don't know if having a master's degree makes a difference. Obviously the lack of teaching experience is going to hold me back. |
Neither one will help you dealing with kids.
You have a degree so you meet the legal requirement for a visa and work permit.
Next step is google and read your face off if you really want to work with kids. There are untold numbers of sites dedicated to being a decent teacher when working with young learners.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bibliogeek
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
So you're saying I should get neither the TEFL nor the CELTA? From what I've read, my chances are greatly reduced without either of these...
To clarify, I am interested in working with adults or with kids. A university job would be great, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lucia79
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 156
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| A CELTA/TEFL/TESOL certificate is an asset and British Council offers certificate courses for teaching young learners. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lucia79 wrote: |
| A CELTA/TEFL/TESOL certificate is an asset and British Council offers certificate courses for teaching young learners. |
Yes, they are an asset for teaching tall people. No, they are pretty much useless for YOUNG learners. I have mixed feelings about them and G7-12 aged learners.
Cambridge (the brand the BC teaches) NO LONGER offers the CELTA-YL as a stand alone course. It is just an add-on AFTER you take the CELTA.
I'm not sure about you but I, as someone directly responsible for a staff of over 100 faculty, would never hire a teacher for young learners based on their having (or not having) a CELTA or other brand of TEFL cert.
OP...
IF you feel the need to add a cert to your list of academic credentials, get an actual post grad cert in primary or ECE if you want to work with kids.
If you want to work with adults in EFL, get the TEFL cert.
If you want to teach in your subject area at a university (assuming your masters is in something useful like science or business) then apply for the job.
You are unlikely to get a job teaching EFL at a university right off the plane or from abroad.
If you want to work with CHILDREN then skip the TEFL cert and start boning up on teaching young learners. Young learners are NOT just smaller versions of older learners and the methodologies you learn in the TEFL courses will leave you with a room full of kids biting each others noses in about 7 minutes.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lucia79
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 156
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I was only stating that the BC offers a short-term certificate course for teaching young learners. I was not saying that it's necessary to have. I know that the CELTA is different from the YL certificate and I wasn't implying that they are combined. Yes, teaching children is very different from teaching adults. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bibliogeek
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you all for your feedback. My Master's is in Library and Information Science. Unfortunately, getting a librarian job at a school abroad is difficult because a) these jobs are few and far between, and b) most schools abroad want proficiency in the native language, and c) most want many years of experience working with the specific population (university students, elementary students, etc.)
What are my chances of getting a job in any of these countries is I have a TEFL certificate? If I don't? Can I expect to get the bottom-level jobs with the worst working conditions to start? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bibliogeek wrote: |
| What are my chances of getting a job in any of these countries if I have a TEFL certificate? If I don't? Can I expect to get the bottom-level jobs with the worst working conditions to start? |
Without a TEFL cert your chances of employment in Asia are 100%.
With a TEFL cert your chances of employment in Asia are 100%.
A TEFL cert won't help get you an increase in salary since you have a degree anyway.
It is now a requirement for a government school position in Korea and is often requested at language academies in Thailand or China. Not needed for work in government schools in Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc.
Comes down to:
i) what do you want to do?
- kids or adults
ii) how desperate are you for employment?
- take the 1st job that comes along or actually get something decent for the country you are going to?
IF you can afford a plane ticket and some setup costs - pick a country (China, Thailand are 2 that are easy to get work in) and both are in their hiring periods NOW.
If you can't afford the ticket then go to Korea. Housing and airfare are included in the package. Register on the Korean forums ( http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/index.php ) for more information (we can't discuss Korea in the international forums).
The chances of getting a job in Asia are 100% - it ISN'T America.
To briefly answer what to expect in terms of remuneration:
China - 3000-8000 RMB. The better jobs supply housing and have an airfare allowance. Savings of 0-$800/mo are possible depending on where you go and what benefits are in your remuneration package.
Korea - starting salaries in the 2.2 million KRW range. Savings of $1000/mo are common. Airfare and housing are standard.
Thailand - starting salaries in the 35000-40,000 THB range. You won't save much if you live in BKK but you will gain experience (both in the classroom and as an expat).
Vietnam - salaries in the $2000 range are possible but you will work for it. Savings of $1000+ are certainly possible AND you can still enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle.
Japan - salaries in the 250000-30000 yen range. The job market it tight and start-up costs are high. Airfare and housing are usually NOT included. Savings of $1000/mo are possible.
Taiwan - wages in the 50,000 TWD range. Nothing is included but the cost of living isn't bad and the savings in the $1000/mo range are possible.
NO, you are NOT limited to bottom of the barrel jobs in EFL. You hold a degree and a post grad degree. Your starting point, with no experience, should be somewhere in the middle of the ladder, not down at the bottom with the back-packers.
.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe Im nitpicking...but Im amazed no-one has chipped in yet. CELTA is an international, widely recognised qualification to teach English as a foreign language, its externally accredited and meets certain regulations. TEFL is not a certificate or qualification...its it merely means 'Teach English as a Foreign Language'. It isnt a qualification per se.
What TEFL qualification are you looking at or comparing? A generic TEFL cert can indeed be equivalent to a CELTA...with 120 hours of class time including observed teaching, or it can be an online course, with no teaching practice, that can be completed in less than 10 hours. That needs to be thought about, and more detail needs to be given for really accurate advice IMO.
Tompattz is right...with your other qualifications, you probably dont have to take the bottom of the barrel backpacker jobs...but by the same token, without any experience or related qualifications, you 'may' be a bottom of the barrel teacher. Dont under-estimate the value of 'genuine' qualifications, even if they are only entry level ones. (cheap online 20 hour online certificates are not even entry level qualifications, hence my earlier comment about 'TEFL' certs.)
You can definitely get a job...the earlier comments are 100% true. Visa requirements are often key...but would I employ you? Probably not...a CELTA does require an investment in time and money...but if I looked at resumes....a CELTA would trump an unrelated MA anytime. (This is true for me...not for all people).
If I employed you and asked you to teach a demo lesson tomorrow teaching any aspect of the present perfect....could you? Most could not and whilst a CELTA wont equip you 100% to do this fairly standard demo task....it will give you an idea. Training 'on the job' may be minimal in many regions...having some kind of cert before DOES help you do the job..and it may help you secure one!
edited to add - ttompatz is better qualified than, and more experienced in Thailand (maybe other regions too) so ignore my advice as you see fit. IMHO...Ive seen many poor CELTA grads....but I have yet to see a good teacher (of EFL) who doesnt have at least a CELTA/Experience/related qualifications) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is just my opinion, but if you have an MS in Library Science, I would place far more value on your knowledge/resources in circle time and other similar activities.
I have taught children and found that I kept referring back to my library science for youth materials rather than anything I learned in my TESL certificate (which was a comprehensive full-time three semester certificate). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bibliogeek
Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Although I have a Master's, I am still considering a CELTA. Maybe some would consider that a waste of money? My reasoning is that the master's gives me a whole other set of skills and knowledge, but it doesn't prepare me to o language. How do they expect people to just be able to jump in and know how to teach English? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bibliogeek wrote: |
| Although I have a Master's, I am still considering a CELTA. Maybe some would consider that a waste of money? My reasoning is that the master's gives me a whole other set of skills and knowledge, but it doesn't prepare me to o language. How do they expect people to just be able to jump in and know how to teach English? |
Do what you feel is best for you and what you want to achieve. Get the CELTA, if gaining essential teaching skills is important to you and it fits your career interests and needs. Plus, a CELTA will certainly improve your chances of employability. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bibliogeek wrote: |
| Although I have a Master's, I am still considering a CELTA. Maybe some would consider that a waste of money? My reasoning is that the master's gives me a whole other set of skills and knowledge, but it doesn't prepare me to o language. How do they expect people to just be able to jump in and know how to teach English? |
Again, boils down to what do you want to do.
If you want to work with adults (university to grave) then get the CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to ADULTS). It will be good for you. You'll have a great experience, do some networking and add new skills.
IF you are going to teach kids in the G7-12 range it has limited value but won't hurt you other than the $2000 price tag.
IF you are going to teach KIDS then save your money. Other than learning the "CELTA WAY" of writing up a lesson plan there is NOTHING in there that will have any real value to you teaching young and very young learners (K-6). As someone who has managed to complete a masters degree the simple act of doing some research and reading on teaching (anything/everything) to young learners will do you well.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
