Job Discussion Forums

roaming kiwi · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:36 pm Post subject: Where ARE the "good" schools?

Okay this is the problem,

Every school I have chased up and done some background research on ends up being severely slammed again and again by various postees in this forum. "Being screwed; dodgy contracts; having to sneak out; ripping you off; not what it claimed to be...."

Those of you who are already in China MUST know the teaching game first-hand to some extent or another.

I know that SARS has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, but the husband and I are heading out from New Zealand in August - we want it to be China (don't want to waste 1 1/2 years of mandarin).

Can ANYONE honestly tell this forum of schools that are even remotely okay!

arrrhhhhggghh! Mad

JamesD · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:34 pm Post subject:

You've got to remember that many of the people who post here COULD have personal axes to grind with past employers. Every single school in the world is going to be slammed by someone at some time.

Read the contracts, talk to current teachers, read ALL of the posts concerning a school and don't concentrate on the negatives. If a school has 20 good reviews and 1 bad one then that should tell you something. No school is going to have a 100% rating with everyone.

Read other posts of people who slam a school. Do you agree with their outlook on other things? If so then you will probably agree on their opinion of a school. Do they rant and rave or state straight facts about a bad school?

If they tell you that everything in China is sunshine and roses you should know better. If they answer your questions and don't dodge the hard ones then they're probably on the up and up.

Go with your gut!!

TEECHER · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 47

Hello Kiwi, Your chances of finding good schools are better if you have trusted friends who can give you personal references. This is of course difficult until you come to China and make those connections. In the meantime, you luckily do have this site to check on. I have been fortunate to find two schools with better than average salaries{over 6000 rmb for under 20 hours} including good living and working conditions. Also, bosses who respect your privacy and pay the agreed salary on time. These basics can be hard to find from many schools in China. I left my original job {in Guandong} upon arrival from Canada, before I had even started. I had signed a contract {while in Canada} with a recruiter{silly me!!}. Of course, the job and the conditions were no-where the same on paper and in reality. I had an interview with the school "leader" of some sort, who sat me down and asked me to write out an essay on "Why do I feel I am worthy of teaching in this fine institution?" I obediently kow-towed three times before his threatening gaze.....and went off to the airport directly. With the help of trusted friends, I got out of his long-reaching clutches{he had been known to have had other teachers barred from getting other work in that city} I now have had experience with two great schools in Sichuan province. No matter how many times you read a contract while sitting at your computer back home{while this is highly recommended!!}, you will always encounter problems if the school is like many of the ones you have seen "slammed".And there are lots!! Best to get recommendations from either other teachers at the intended school, or references from people you know....preferably who have experience in China. Palm me if you like and I will have the schools send you their contracts and requirements. Also, because of the SARS problem, teachers are becoming an ever increasingly valuable commodity. Keep this in mind when negotiating a contract. Bye for now,

Hamish · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 333 Location: PRC

Baoding Teachers College is a lower tier school in a small town an hour and a half by train from Beijing. The school is working hard to educate teachers and build a new facility. My wife and I have been here for just short of a year and have found it to be a wonderful experience.

The people are kind, honest and supportive, The managers do more than they are required to do by any contractual consideration to make us welcome. The students are hard working and interested. The town is not tourist haven, so people are interested in us when we move around the place and treat us as special. The money is good and is on time. The living accommodations are VERY nice.

Check out small college like this one, even this one, in small towns where you will not be part of a huge group. Of course, we did not come to China to meet expats, so we like being away from that community.

Best of luck

Regard,

Minhang Oz · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 610 Location: Shanghai,ex Guilin

Even at my school,which I like,a few of the foreigners 'bag" the place.Interestingly,they are not teachers by profession,and have made no effort to learn any language and culture....they bag China too.Look at Dave's Job Discussion Journal for some recommendations,and bear in mind that it's mainly dissatisfied people who have the most to say-the rest just do their job and enjoy life!All the research done indicates private schools are a much greater cause of dissatisfaction than state ones;I've taught at 2 of these over 4 years with no complaints.Contact me for their names.

inwanzhou · Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 136

Hello Roaming Kiwi

I'm at a nice school, and they can be found. I took about 6 months to find a really nice school. I really didn't know anyone in China and I came here with a kind of blind faith....and I was very fortunate to find a really nice job. I get paid on time, I live in a huge apartment with all the entertainment a person could want. My boss wants to make sure my roomate and I are very happy. I work about 15 hours a week and get paid 5000RMB. I live in a smaller town so much easier to save on that salary!

Before I came to this school I asked the contact person to give me names of people who worked at the school before. When I contacted a past employer I recieved a phone call right away from them saying that it was a legit school and I would have a nice time. I took this persons word for it as well as the other people who worked at the school. It has been a very positive experience so far.

PM me if you wish to know the contact person I found this job from. He might be helpful to you as well.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Many posts on the Job Information Forum reveal more about the posters themselves than they tell about the school they worked for.
It is true, however, that job security and stability are not readily available in China. However, once you have secured a work visa, you should have a relatively uneventful life (except on the classroom front).
It also needs to be pointed out that teaching in China is nowhere near teaching in a Western country.
Generally, I would suggest that newcomers find employment with an university or college, or AES rather than one of the too-numerous private language institutes, for instance ES.
I know several reputable schools that have treated expats nicely! (And, of course, they also treat their students well!).

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Hello MyTurnNow,
I respect anyone who disagrees with me, especially if it is done in such a polite way as in your case.
My reply suggested that newcomers should first try to work for a public school so as to learn the ropes of the trade and the peculiarities of working in China.
But many do head straight to a private training centre. Now, there are some that I would recommend, but there are many more that are fly-by-night. The vast majority - or so it seems to me! - don't know the legal provisions of hiring an expat, nor do they care. This inevitably leads to frustration and disillusionment.
If I was to mention a chain that's reputable and known to be treating its expat staffers fair, I would not hesitate to mention AES.
I have noticed that there has been a sudden spate of complaints from disgruntled former AES teachers. All these posts on the Job Info forum were submitted within the last two months. Before that, hardly anyone ever had any comment on AES. Isn't it a bit mysterious that within two months you get 3 or 4 complaints?
I do not wish to dispute that one or the other AES branch may have experienced management problems to the detriment of the wellbeing of expat teachers. In fact, I would not believe that all their operations are running smoothly all the time. But the criticisms poured out on the Job Information forum is too summary and too subjective for me to take it as fact. The posters failed to substantiate their observations. What they did was pouring out the water with the baby in it. People who can't find anything positive to say about AES either have a particular axe to grind, or they have a secret agenda.

I want to add that AES is a profit-orientated chain, and it does not beat about the bush about this. But it works its expat staffers only 25 hours a week, whereas EF teachers put in 40 hours a week and have to wear formal dress and a tie.
For me the choice is not in favour of EF.