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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I agree with much of the above. 10k a month in a place I dont want to be/ teaching an age group that is less desirable/working evenings and weekends is a far worse deal than 5k with preferred age group/location/teaching hours.
On a side note re-China wages. I also teach EFL in England. I earn around 125 RMB an hour, with no additional benefits such as housing/travel allowance/utilities/free or subsidised food, or even holiday pay! And thats in a country where the cost of living is much much higher.
Sure there are high paying jobs out there...but even the low paying ones can have something going for them depending on your perspective. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Why are there so many teachers arguing against higher wages for teachers? Every single one of the foreigner teachers whom I have actually met face to face have outright complained bitterly about costs skyrocketing and salaries not following suit.
Personally, I could care less these days what schools pay foreigners. I am halfway there to being my own boss; schools can pay you all 2000 RMB for all I care. I just know as a fact that each and every one of you is worth a lot more than what you are currently getting and your employers (and fellow co-workers) are probably laughing themselves to the bank.
Geez, give yourselves a bit more credit.
The following is for satire purposes only:
Bus Driver Whiner: We need higher wages; inflation is killing me.
Bus Driver Maniac: No way! What we get is enough. Sure, some drivers get more money, but the extra work isn't worth it.
Chou Bus Driver: Heck, they can lower our salaries for all I care! Maybe we get too much!
John the Bus Driver: Yeppers. Yep yep. Less money, please. Yep.
Bus Driver Number 79: Yea, we are not worth the money. In fact, we are over-valued; inflation seems like a positive thing here. Hopefully, things will balance out and my spending power will dwindle.
Reasonable Bus Driver: Amen! I might even start sending money back to my boss, it's all too much for me! |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Great Wall of Whiner, how soon we forget. |
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weigookin742011
Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought that Disney and some of the other larger chains in bigger cities were paying decent. Maybe 12 to 13 K RMB and giving a 3 to 4 K RMB housing allowance in Beijing and Shanghai. That's what I had heard last autumn. Got some ads with decent wage offers spammed into my mailbox. But lately, getting spammed with offers of 4 to 8 K which seems like a joke. But, I have experience teaching in Korea for a few years. |
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weigookin742011
Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Guess, I would have to add, my ideal would be to send 1 K $$ equivalent home each month. If a smaller city with lower pay and some provided accomodation would make this possible too, then ok. But not sure how to compare that. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| that pretty much sums it up. Given the current state of the world economy I'm sure a lot of us are happy just to have a half decent job over here right now and for the foreseeable future. |
Absolutely, I am so grateful, everynight while eating instant noodles because I can't afford any other food I thank the almighty FAO of my school for giving me this opportunity and from saving me from the hardships of back home. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| therock wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| that pretty much sums it up. Given the current state of the world economy I'm sure a lot of us are happy just to have a half decent job over here right now and for the foreseeable future. |
Absolutely, I am so grateful, everynight while eating instant noodles because I can't afford any other food I thank the almighty FAO of my school for giving me this opportunity and from saving me from the hardships of back home. |
Really? It's hard to tell if something is meant sarcastically on an internet forum. But if you really are eating instant noodles everynight then I'd look at where your wages are going. I find it difficult to believe that instant noodles is all you can afford.
The conditions may not be what they once were (I wouldn't know first hand) but I still think they are pretty good. The old hands here may view me as part of the problem - a new comer willing to work for what they see as less than favourable conditions - but I haven't known any different. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| Great Wall of Whiner, how soon we forget. |
Address the message and not the messenger; how soon we forget.... |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| weigookin742011 wrote: |
| I thought that Disney and some of the other larger chains in bigger cities were paying decent. Maybe 12 to 13 K RMB and giving a 3 to 4 K RMB housing allowance in Beijing and Shanghai. That's what I had heard last autumn. Got some ads with decent wage offers spammed into my mailbox. But lately, getting spammed with offers of 4 to 8 K which seems like a joke. But, I have experience teaching in Korea for a few years. |
You have some experience in the same location that I had, so perhaps you can relate a little bit to what I'm about to say.
As for Disney: they do pay decent-ish, but there are so many foreigners here willing to work for low wages (as in: they are not legally qualified) that it keeps the wages artificially low in other areas.
Look at the cities that offer higher wages; they all do actual checks to make sure teachers' qualifications are legit. Disney certainly does, and so they should.
And it is a well-known fact that foreigners with no qualifications struggle to capture the coveted positions (but not impossible). Places that check qualifications tend to offer higher salaries. There is a reason for this.
I am starting to understand why some around here defend the lower salaries now... |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| Great Wall of Whiner, how soon we forget. |
Address the message and not the messenger; how soon we forget.... |
Don't worry, I will. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
And it is a well-known fact that foreigners with no qualifications struggle to capture the coveted positions (but not impossible). Places that check qualifications tend to offer higher salaries. There is a reason for this.
I am starting to understand why some around here defend the lower salaries now... |
i was gonna say........nah, i'll let the bus driver say it.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
Address the message and not the messenger |
Last edited by choudoufu on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Incoming message 
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Why are there so many teachers arguing against higher wages for teachers? |
No-one is arguing against higher wages and I don't know where you keep getting that idea. It's a well known fact that most ESL jobs in this country require nothing more than a living, breathing body and a BA, and those are a dime a dozen. Typically, once you price yourself out of your job you get replaced by someone who will work the same hours within the salary range offered. That's how it works here and pretty much everywhere else. I wouldn't mind a higher salary but I'm at a loss as to how that could be justified under the current conditions of the contracts at our school (read on).
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
Why are there so many teachers arguing against higher wages for teachers? Every single one of the foreigner teachers whom I have actually met face to face have outright complained bitterly about costs skyrocketing and salaries not following suit.
Personally, I could care less these days what schools pay foreigners. I am halfway there to being my own boss; schools can pay you all 2000 RMB for all I care. I just know as a fact that each and every one of you is worth a lot more than what you are currently getting and your employers (and fellow co-workers) are probably laughing themselves to the bank. |
Clearly you do care because you keep talking about it on every wage related thread. Don't take the following snippets as a hostile response but just as a refresher of things said in the recent past that are relevant to this current thread:
October 2010:
Job Market: Tell us the TRUTH
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| Zero wrote: |
| I would not ask for too much salary, though. China is still a developing country and they cannot afford to pay high prices. If you manipulate them into too much money, it may come out of the pockets of local Chinese staff who make less and are barely getting by. |
OK, that really incited me to respond. My school has two foreign teachers:
We both get paid 100 RMB an hour. I work 32 hours a week; the other guy 11 hours a week. |
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| My boss is a millionaire, and his son is studying at UCLA in California. |
Not that long ago you were only making 100/hr (which is ok but not great) while working for someone who could best be described as Mr Moneybags. My point is even then you were lecturing others on accepting wages you felt were too low. Do you see the irony here? You may be earning more today but you're also working three jobs, and have a wife and two kids to support.
August 2011:
Wuhan on 5000RMB?
| 7969 wrote: |
Great Wall of Whiner, you constantly rail against people who take jobs paying less than 10,000/month, paying little or no attention to other aspects of the job, and in the process you make these lower paid teachers out to be chumps. On that note (and quoting you yourself) - let's look at the salary debate from a different perspective - In 2010-2011 at my poor little state run teacher's college, I was paid 7200/month for 12 hours per week. That works out to RMB150/hour v. the RMB100/hour you earn (I had/have 3-4 full days off weekly AND nearly five months paid vacation which I'm sure you don't have). So I have to ask, who's the real chump? Seriously.
PS: I just spent the last five weeks in Canada relaxing and doing a bit of casual job-hunting. Unless you've got some very unique qualifications or experience and/or a big pile of money to help you make it through a possibly lengthy transition period you're in for a big shock when you go home later this year. |
Sept 2011:
What is a good salary in China?
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| icedout921 wrote: |
| Maybe its due to my lack of teaching experience. I am getting no offers over 5,000 rmb. I guess it could also be the time of year. Guessing my first job in China will have to be a lower paying one, in order for me to gain some much needed classroom experience. |
That's because there are more than enough of you newbies willing to work for such a low salary.
Any reason why you don't accept the 10,000+RMB a month jobs advertised on this website? |
Because a lot of them are crap? They don't tell you all the facts up front? No Z visa? 30-40 hours per week? yeah plenty of reasons to not accept the 10,000+RMB a month jobs advertised on this website. |
As for the hours... absolutely. If you want to work a little, you earn a little. Fair enough. If you have a family, however, money IS important |
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| I can see the appeal of colleges now. If I were single and had no kids nor responsibilities... I would do it in a flash. |
"Fair enough." You "can see the appeal of colleges now." Yet every time a thread on wages is started you get confrontational and can't figure out why people take jobs that offer a lower salary. What's so hard to understand?
People not familiar with the wage/benefit situation in China should go to the above links for the entire, lengthy dialogue, because they help illustrate why, contrary to what flyingcolours intended, location and working hours and everything else, have to be considered when deciding a fair wage.
In the 2011 calendar year at this uni I showed up for work 112/365 days, all while being paid a decent salary for 365 days (even on the days I showed up I only worked 3-5 hours). I could have stayed in my rent free apartment over the most recent holiday, or worked another job. Instead I chose to travel to SE Asia for several weeks and enjoy life. Others working at universities (or other schools) may have similar arrangements and, like you, have the potential to take side jobs and earn more if they want. Or not. How many days off with pay did your boss(es) give you in 2011 Great Wall of Whiner? I had 253. How much is that worth?
From where I sit most foreign ESL teachers are not working for and being exploited by 守财奴 (millionaire slavemasters), and if they are, they're free to move on at any time and find better paying jobs. There's no point in me adding anything more - this thread is almost a carbon copy of every other thread on the same topic. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
In the 2011 calendar year at this uni I showed up for work 112/365 days, all while being paid a decent salary for 365 days (even on the days I showed up I only worked 3-5 hours). I could have stayed in my rent free apartment over the most recent holiday, or worked another job. Instead I chose to travel to SE Asia for several weeks and enjoy life. Others working at universities (or other schools) may have similar arrangements and, like you, have the potential to take side jobs and earn more if they want. Or not. How many days off with pay did your boss(es) give you in 2011 Great Wall of Whiner? I had 253. How much is that worth?
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Hear hear! |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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I have never heard an FT, here or elsewhere, say that we should make less. I'm not exactly raking in the coin, nor do I get that many paid vacations. I'd like to make more and work less, but I have to look at the benefits of my current situation and the other offers out there. All in all, I'm making about $25 CDN per hour after tax, which I feel is ok. The money goes farther here than at home. Shanghai isn't the most expensive city in Asia, but Vancouver is the most expensive city in Canada. Happiness depends a great deal on how much ambition you have.
RED |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
In the 2011 calendar year at this uni I showed up for work 112/365 days, all while being paid a decent salary for 365 days (even on the days I showed up I only worked 3-5 hours). I could have stayed in my rent free apartment over the most recent holiday, or worked another job. Instead I chose to travel to SE Asia for several weeks and enjoy life. Others working at universities (or other schools) may have similar arrangements and, like you, have the potential to take side jobs and earn more if they want. Or not. How many days off with pay did your boss(es) give you in 2011 Great Wall of Whiner? I had 253. How much is that worth?. |
I think this is quite misleading especially for newbie teachers. From the sounds of it you are on a good package. However this is not the norm, the majority of teachers who work in the public sector would work on average more days than you. Sure they would probably only work a few hours a day, but the majority do not have 253 days off.
Most public schools do not pay over the summer break, maybe it's possible to get half pay, but generally these type of schools offer 10 or 11 month contracts as a way to avoid paying over the holidays.
A lot of universities house their foreign teachers in the school hotel, everything is provided and it's comfortable, but the problem with this is over the breaks it's possible the hotel will close forcing the teacher to either travel, return home or being housed in another hotel. Hardly a stable living arrangement. Would you accept this back home? |
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