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kona
Joined: 17 Sep 2011
Posts: 188
Location: USA
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: Japan and my MA TESOL |
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Hi everyone,
I'm currently working on getting my MA TESOL right now and am trying to do some job searching for the coming year... I do not have much experience (only 6 months of ESL in Mexico and 1 year as a public school teacher (and I'm not certified, it was done through a non-profit agency)), and I'm looking for a job in Asia. Originally, I didn't consider Japan because I thought it was too expensive (but incredibly interesting as well), but I figure I should consider all my options
From what I understand, Japan is an incredibly competitive market and my qualifications will not get me anything amazing right off the bat, especially without publications. However, if I stay focused, would it be possible for me to get into a university/community college position in a year? Would I definitely need to be published for that? What about time to learn the language? I love the Japanese language and culture and would love to learn the two if time permits (as I hope it does), but if I'm trying to get published at the same time, it might not be possible. Also, I'm somewhat flexible on location (I'd like to be in a city but it doesn't have to be Tokyo): maybe Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, etc.
So my options as far as work goes are:
a. eikaiwa job and work into something better. I might get a difficult administrator and could be risky but I could apply any time of the year.
b. ALT, private language assistant. don't know exactly how this works, but I assume its sort of like JET?? Do I have to be on the ground for this one?
c. Wait for JET... I know I missed the window of opportunity for the Fall 2012 one, but I guess the Japanese school year starts in Spring, so does JET do hiring for a Spring start as well?
Anyways, any feedback is appreciated! Take care and sayonara! |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Japan and my MA TESOL |
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| kona wrote: |
c. Wait for JET... I know I missed the window of opportunity for the Fall 2012 one, but I guess the Japanese school year starts in Spring, so does JET do hiring for a Spring start as well?
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The Japanese school year starts July/August. JET apps are due in Nov/Dec for the following year, interviews in Feb in most places, and decisions in May/June. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Most university positions require publications. I'm sure there will be people who can report on the odd one that doesn't. Figure your competition for uni jobs is very high (20-100 candidates per slot). A year of teaching here beforehand will be minimal, but at least it's something. I think you should really network a lot while you are here, but don't think that an eikaiwa job will be considered sufficient work in Japan to get past a university review panel. Even ALT work would be looked down upon in many cases.
Look at the JRECIN site http://jrecin.jst.go.jp/seek/SeekTop?ln=1 for a good handle on what unis want in their candidates. Also check out the FAQ stickies on uni jobs.
IMO, you will have to wait more than a year.
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| The Japanese school year starts July/August. |
No, it doesn't. It starts in April. JET program sends its ALT in July/August. There's a difference.
| kona wrote: |
| What about time to learn the language? |
It's what you make of it. Eikaiwa will require noon to 9pm 5-6 days a week (any days); ALTs work roughly 9am to 5pm Mon-Fri; international schools AFAIK work you Mon-Fri. Private HS or JHS will have Mon-Fri hours plus 2 half-Saturdays a month (I'm referring to FT solo jobs there, not ALT).
The allure of the country for sightseeing and other recreation is a big draw away from one's language studies, so it's all up to you to decide how disciplined you can be. |
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kona
Joined: 17 Sep 2011
Posts: 188
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Most university positions require publications. I'm sure there will be people who can report on the odd one that doesn't. Figure your competition for uni jobs is very high (20-100 candidates per slot). A year of teaching here beforehand will be minimal, but at least it's something. I think you should really network a lot while you are here, but don't think that an eikaiwa job will be considered sufficient work in Japan to get past a university review panel. Even ALT work would be looked down upon in many cases.
Look at the JRECIN site http://jrecin.jst.go.jp/seek/SeekTop?ln=1 for a good handle on what unis want in their candidates. Also check out the FAQ stickies on uni jobs.
IMO, you will have to wait more than a year.
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| The Japanese school year starts July/August. |
No, it doesn't. It starts in April. JET program sends its ALT in July/August. There's a difference.
| kona wrote: |
| What about time to learn the language? |
It's what you make of it. Eikaiwa will require noon to 9pm 5-6 days a week (any days); ALTs work roughly 9am to 5pm Mon-Fri; international schools AFAIK work you Mon-Fri. Private HS or JHS will have Mon-Fri hours plus 2 half-Saturdays a month (I'm referring to FT solo jobs there, not ALT).
The allure of the country for sightseeing and other recreation is a big draw away from one's language studies, so it's all up to you to decide how disciplined you can be. |
Thanks for posting the links, I went through the stickies more thoroughly and gleamed some good information. Also, the points you make are solid and sound, I appreciate that.
I have a few more questions: Does the JET program only send out their ALTs in July and August? Do you have to be in Japan on the ground in order to get into non-JET ALT programs, or can you apply for them from abroad as well? I've heard some non-JET ALT programs hire direct, without recruiters. Does anyone know any I could contact? What about community colleges or technical schools, are they easier to get into than universities?
Also, one question on a side note: a friend of mine told me that there are cultural centers where you can learn Japanese for free (I don't know if they're sponsored by the government or not), but have you heard of these? If so, how available are they? Would this come under a cultural visa that I could work part time with? |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| kona wrote: |
| I have a few more questions: Does the JET program only send out their ALTs in July and August? |
As far as I know, yes.
| Quote: |
| Do you have to be in Japan on the ground in order to get into non-JET ALT programs, or can you apply for them from abroad as well? |
There may be some that recruit from abroad, but I would guess that most recruit from within Japan.
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| I've heard some non-JET ALT programs hire direct, without recruiters. Does anyone know any I could contact? |
Bear in mind that these are commonly called dispatch agencies, and that many will not even call their ALTs company employees, but rather use the term sub-contractor. This leaves the agency open to doing things like not offering health insurance copayments. Dispatch agencies abound at the moment, so I suggest you go to most job boards to see their ads. Hard to miss.
| Quote: |
| What about community colleges or technical schools, are they easier to get into than universities? |
Case by case, I would presume. You're still probably going to have to be physically present to get much of a chance, especially for interviewing. And, if they are anything like unis, many/most will offer only PT work.
| Quote: |
| Also, one question on a side note: a friend of mine told me that there are cultural centers where you can learn Japanese for free (I don't know if they're sponsored by the government or not), but have you heard of these? If so, how available are they? Would this come under a cultural visa that I could work part time with? |
The visa you would need would be a student visa. Cultural activities visa is not for studying language.
Contact city hall or a ward office to see what is offered in the way of free classes. Of course, if you aren't here now, that might be difficult. Culture centers are businesses, and as such I would guess that most want fees. That was the case for one where I used to work, and for one in my current city, anyway. |
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timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Since you have an MA and teaching experience at the high school level - I would suggest adding some experiences that connect you to Japan. Employers may want to understand your interest in Japan. Have you taught Japanese students before? If not, maybe you should find a way to do that at a local conversation school or do private tutoring before going to Japan.
I don't mean to be cynical, but university jobs tend to be terminal - as in they will only last 2 -3 years and then you will be scrambling for new work. I gave up trying and didn't bother getting published. If you use an employment agency that skims pay etc..., you will be working with an ALT salary.
There are the rare few that get permanently hired at universities... I gave up trying.
You may (since you are presumably certified) try applying directly to international schools in Japan. The website Tieonline is a good resource for that.
You also should look at private Japanese high schools. They may directly hire you as a permanent ALT or even a teacher. This is the kind of job I was able to get with an MA and no publications - but with previous Eikaiwa experience in Japan and US public school teaching experience.
Oh, yes and as others said JET my be a good leg in to working in Japan.... |
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pnksweater
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| kona wrote: |
I have a few more questions: Does the JET program only send out their ALTs in July and August? Do you have to be in Japan on the ground in order to get into non-JET ALT programs, or can you apply for them from abroad as well? I've heard some non-JET ALT programs hire direct, without recruiters. Does anyone know any I could contact? What about community colleges or technical schools, are they easier to get into than universities?
Also, one question on a side note: a friend of mine told me that there are cultural centers where you can learn Japanese for free (I don't know if they're sponsored by the government or not), but have you heard of these? If so, how available are they? Would this come under a cultural visa that I could work part time with? |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
JET now has �early departure� positions. These ALTs apply the same time as everyone, but have to hand in a few important pieces of paperwork early so that they can start work in April. These positions have minimal orientation, if any. Early departure also has some impact on your pension refund and a few other minor things. However, it would make finding a job within Japan after JET much easier since you wouldn�t have to break contract to do so. The majority of teaching opportunities in the school system start in April.
Aside from early departure, applicants that are granted an interview but don�t make the final �short list� may be put on the �alternate� list. If a JET has to break contract mid-year, often an alternate is called in to take their place. It�s kind of a pain to play the waiting game, but these people do get upgraded on occasion.
To address the whole JET is a great job thing, you should know that the pay scale is changing radically from 2012 on. Previous JETs made 3,600,000 yen a year *after* taxes. First year JETs will now make 3,360,000 yen a year *before* taxes for all nationalities, regardless of tax treaties (or the lack of). While the pay is still a little more than many dispatch ALT positions, you will be paying into pension and national health care. This also impacts the amount of pay in your pocket every month. Since subsidized housing or reimbursed travel expenses depend on the school or board of education that hires you, you won�t really know how far your salary will go until you get the specifics from your contracting organization. You won�t find out the specifics of your job until a few weeks prior to departure. Not all JET jobs are created equal, but you don�t have much say in the issue. Either you take what you�re offered, or you drop out of the program.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
The other positions you�re asking about are called direct hire positions. They run the whole range from nearly a scam to super awesome. Most people find these through word of mouth or local job advertisements. However, it�s worth the trouble to look into any sister city organizations in your area. They might have info of a direct hire position as part of a sister city exchange. My university had a faculty exchange with a Japanese university.
When you get to Japan, ask around and see if there are any international clubs or community centers that offer language classes. They are often very low cost, but run by volunteers. My husband has found his community classes pretty much useless. Someone with a foundation in the language might get more out of them. Most people I know enjoy them for a year or so, then move onto something more challenging or better suited to their goals.
To get a student visa for language schools, you need to do a rather intensive program. Mine was around 8 hours of classes a day 5-6 days a week. Most community classes are an hour or two once a week� there�s no way they�d be able to sponsor your visa. If you do get a student visa you can apply for permission to work part time on a student visa. However, most full time language schools are pretty taxing, so finding time for work and study can be challenging. |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| The Japanese school year starts July/August. |
No, it doesn't. It starts in April. JET program sends its ALT in July/August. There's a difference.
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Opps, yr right. My bad - tired and not thinking about it.   |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| pnksweater wrote: |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
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Yup, I'd agree with that summary.
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| pnksweater wrote: |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
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Yup, I'd agree with that summary.
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
I had no idea that JET's salary was going to take a cut in pay. Scary thought and it's sad that dispatch companies are to blame for it on some levels. I also didn't know that JET had changed its requirements (by the sounds of it). |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| pnksweater wrote: |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
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Yup, I'd agree with that summary.
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
Whaa~~~~~??? 
Do Americans get paid less or more?  |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| pnksweater wrote: |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
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Yup, I'd agree with that summary.
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
Impossible! At Interac, I average 195,000� a month before taxes and what not. Is JET really going to reach that level? |
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Cool Teacher
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 930
Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| pnksweater wrote: |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
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Yup, I'd agree with that summary.
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
Impossible! At Interac, I average 195,000� a month before taxes and what not. Is JET really going to reach that level? |
Be... f-f-f-f-f-  ..fore!!! |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Cool Teacher wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| G Cthulhu wrote: |
| pnksweater wrote: |
JETs gone through some pretty big changes the last few years that the previous posters might not know about.
I�m not saying that JET isn�t worth applying for. It�s just that as an applicant you have to be willing to accept a larger amount of uncertainty and a large degree of variance in the actual job specifics. Additionally, with the new pay scale, it doesn�t really match its reputation as a sweet gig.
|
Yup, I'd agree with that summary.
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
Impossible! At Interac, I average 195,000� a month before taxes and what not. Is JET really going to reach that level? |
Be... f-f-f-f-f- ..fore!!! |
Yep. Make 230,000� a month, but if you avg it out with the 4 months a year, where I can paid far less. The avg ends up being 19.5 or so a month. Which is why I just walk out of school at 2:30 now. As to make ends meet, I have to teach privates, a lot of them. |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| G Cthulhu wrote: |
With the new changes and the fact that they are now pre-tax salaries, depending on where you are from and where you are sent and what you might get in the way of subsidies, there is a decent chance that first year JETs will be making less than the dispatch drones. Not so much a problem for tax treaty countries such as the US where you get the first two years Jpn tax free, but if you're from NZ, Oz, Canada, etc. then you're screwed.
The numbers I've seen indicate that a good number of first year non-American JETs, possibly even a small majority, will be getting ~205,000 in the hand, before rent & utilities. With the average rent & utility numbers, that will take them down to ~140,000/mo net. That sucks. Thanks, dispatch companies: you've driven the wages down for everyone! CLAIR has actually managed to make Interac look good! |
This is really too bad. Due to a number of reasons the quality of JETs in my prefecture has been improving. There have been more and more experienced and credentialed ALTs coming in, and the median age has been creeping up. I was on the Mid Year Seminar committees these past two years, and it was clear from the quality of most of the presentations and from reading the participant evaluation forms that the past two seminars have been the best of the 5 I have attended. We also received feedback from many JTEs that the overall quality of ALTs is improving.
This will most likely reverse that trend. |
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