Job Discussion Forums

[Mila]

Hi all!

I'm wondering if there is work to be found in HCMC this time of year. There seems to be more job posts for Hanoi than Saigon. I'm currently in Hanoi. Pros and cons on the two cities coming from experienced ones such as yourselves will be much appreciated!

BTW I have a BA + TEFL and almost 3 years experience.

Thanks!

[mark_in_saigon]

There is a huge amount of info on this on this site. The search function recently started working again, so just do some searches and you should find what you are looking for. It does take a bit of effort, but it pays off. The folks who take the time to give more information in their posting will almost always get better results. For example, speaking of your specific goals will enable folks to address the topics most important to you. Without that, a person has to answer all the questions you might have asked, as he does not know what is especially important to you (income, traffic issues, pollution, social life, relative beauty of the city, quality of the schools, student populations, etc.). So it helps a lot to be more descriptive with your questions, rather than simply requesting pros and cons. These are not simple subjects. It might help if all new posters were more specific in discussing their personal goals and what is important to them so that the answers can be more meaningful and the discussion does not turn into a generalized back and forth argument without some focus on the original post.

This would actually be a good topic to have as a sticky or whatever they are called. It is one of those that is quite important, with bunches already written on the subject, and just needs to be compiled into one never ending thread. Most of the answers should be there if you search. Some very specific questions may still need fleshing out.

There is some discussion right now on one of the current threads about finding a job at this time. This is a great site, the more time you put into it with search, reading current discussions and asking specific questions the more you will be rewarded with the answers to your questions.

[LettersAthruZ]

There are several differences.....but what I have noticed through firsthand observation and what I have heard from friends of mine in both cities is that in Ho CHi Minh City, there are only two seasons (NOTHING even slightly resembling a "winter" there), a lot more to do (hey - it IS The South, after all) and, as the Economic Depression continues to ravage Europa (especially the U.K. and Ireland) and The United States, more and more and more economic refugees are trying their luck at teaching English and are damm near flooding HCMC, thusly, bringing down salaries and limiting the number of available teaching positions that are currently vacant........

Ha Noi, on the other hand, does indeed have a lot of teaching positions open.

Why??

Well, five years ago, you could live like a king or queen on a T�y (foreigner's) ELS instructors salary in Ha Noi!

Today?? It is one of the top ten most expensive cities in Asia!! ESL salaries have NOT kept pace in Ha Noi and many T�y go there, teach, realise that they need three housemates just to afford the rent and usually take off after three months to Da Nang or Hai Phong or back home!

IF you can get the gigs, I'd say HCMC is your better bet.

[inhanoi]

Yes, to further the comments from 'mark,' if you are currently in hanoi, please note what you've found to like and dislike, based on your own needs and interests. As said, there are several threads comparing the two cities. The opinions about Hanoi seem to be of two rather extreme camps (love vs hate), not much middle ground. Lovely spring weather is just around the corner, by the way.

Be careful not to get too enthused about the apparent glut of jobs in Hanoi, some of these places are poorly managed and not worth bothering with. You are qualified (on paper anyway, as long as your TEFL is not from an on-line program) to be hired by the more professional schools.

[mark_in_saigon]

Probably worth pointing out the New Hanoian does a pretty good job of advertising ESL teaching jobs in the north, and we do not have a similar resource in the south [edited, incorrectly stated WEST] that I am aware of. Anyway, this tends to create the appearance of an even greater demand in the north. I think there is a greater demand, probably based on the quality of life north vs south (could be wrong on this part), but again, I think this publication adds to the appearance of the imbalance. Without trying to disparage anyone, I think any highly skilled native speakers who have good appearance, exhibit professional behavior and can adapt to the difficulties can find work in either city. Whether or not it will meet their financial or personal goals, who knows?

[inhanoi]

Yes, there are lots of ads on the New Hanoian, but you can flush about half of them if you're looking for a reliable employer. And mark, you meant 'south,' not 'west,' yes? :)

[cb400]

I have recently moved to Saigon after almost 6 years in Hanoi.

I think that Saigon is harder to find work and pays less. Not only am I struggling to find work, many of my friends here are working 3-4 jobs to make ends meet. This is something you do not really find as often in Hanoi as there is a much greater demand.

For lifestyle I prefer Saigon....especially after so long in the North, but many noobies are not sold on Saigon either... but everyone adjusts to living abroad differently.

these are just my opinions, if you have any specific questions jsut ask and we will try to answer as honestly as possible.

[mark_in_saigon]

[Mattingly]

[quote="LettersAthruZ"]....as the Economic Depression continues to ravage Europa (especially the U.K. and Ireland) and The United States, more and more and more economic refugees are trying their luck at teaching English and are damm near flooding HCMC, thusly, bringing down salaries and limiting the number of available teaching positions that are currently vacant........

.....Well, five years ago, you could live like a king or queen on a T�y (foreigner's) ELS instructors salary in Ha Noi!

Today?? It is one of the top ten most expensive cities in Asia!! ESL salaries have NOT kept pace in Ha Noi and many T�y go there, teach, realise that they need three housemates just to afford the rent....

[/quote]

This is EXACTLY what is happening.

There is a constant inflow of people coming to Vietnam to teach English. Many of these people have Master's degree (in non-teaching/education/EFL). There are even some former Lawyers teaching.

Even if new arrivals leave there is always a new batch to replace them.

Hanoi wages peaked about 2 years ago.

Hanoi has 3 years left, to be worth teaching, in my opinion.

Saigon hit the wall sometimes in 2008. This is when I left.

[Mattingly]

[inhanoi]

To the contrary, I know a number of teachers in Hanoi who are hesitant to leave because they know they could never achieve the high standard of living elsewhere that they enjoy here. And wages in Hanoi have not peaked, not at all.

What do you base your 3-year Hanoi doomsday scenario on? I'm not asking to be confrontational, but I do feel that new folks reading this have the right to know what this statement is based on.

[Mattingly]

[1st Sgt Welsh]

[deadlift]

[Mattingly]

Just to clarify, I have all of the documents for a work permit.

I have worked several full-time contracts at "good" schools.

RMIT is the exception, not the rule. Did I read correctly that RMIT hired newly graduated CELTA grads for $2,800 USD per month? Or, am I mistaken.

I am aware that RMIT has hired before and I am good friends with a manager that set up an academic program and recruited teachers - preferably with an MA from Thailand and elsewhere.

But yes, one can work at RMIT with BA/BS celta and experience.

Folks, my point stands. In general, the quality of work has declined, the wages have stagnated and in some cases declined.

Saigon has already turned the corner.