Job Discussion Forums

inhanoi · Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 165

Sorry, mat tingly. With all due respect, you state above that you left Vietnam 3-4 years ago. On what do you base your current statistics?

1st Sgt Welsh · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject:

bobpen · Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 89

Keep in mind that one of the most important factors of working in a place isn't the $x amount of dollars it may pay, but is instead really whether or not you want to wake up every morning, or slog through 4pm traffic five days a week and walk through the front doors, having to face scheming little managers or backstabbing co-teachers. All this talk of ka-ching misses the point. I'd rather be at a school I like and get $1500 tops, than at one I don't and get $2900. A number of schools around HCMC have a reputation of less than desirable working conditions, like groupie cliqueiness (sp), surrealistically ambitious supervisors, and other little games. THAT's what determines whether a school is or isn't good in my book. I've never worked at rmit, but I'd at least want to inspect those conditions before doing so.

kurtz · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 518 Location: Phaic Tan

1st Sgt Welsh · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject:

I hear what you are saying bobpen and I kind of agree with you. Maybe I could earn more money teaching in another school in HCMC but, to be honest, I've never tried as I've been quite happy working at ACET.

Just for the record, I'm not personally that hung up on money and I was just responding to the posts claiming that it wasn't financially worthwhile to teach in Saigon anymore. By the way Mila, that's good advice from kurtz and, for what it's worth, I agree 100 percent and welcome to Dave's!

deadlift · Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 267

mrpoe · Joined: 07 Feb 2012 Posts: 11 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam

Individual differences, personal and professional goals influence how one evaluates the suitability of a job market. Vietnam remains one of the best countries to work teaching ESL in Asia and SE Asia. The ratio of cost-of-living to income isn't as attractive today as it was a couple of years ago or so, but that's true all over the world. After a year or two of experience a professional can earn a good living in Hanoi. I know of people (they're not hard to find) who save $1000 or more USD a month. Most people, unless you get a job with an international school, shouldn't expect to be able to in your first year.

If you're teaching ESL to fund travel and adventure it's unlikely that you'll want to stay in one country for more than a year anyway. You'll earn enough to save for the next flight and more in Hanoi if you live in shared housing and eat street food. Not a bad life. Hanoi can be a lot of fun. If you work two jobs you'll save more, of course.

Keep in mind that the inflation rate in Vietnam was over 20% last year and not much better in 2010. Last time I checked it was 16-17% this year. The price of everything, especially food and fuel, has gone way up. Therefore, the price of all goods and services has increased significantly.

All schools appreciate and will reward a skilled professional teacher with work experience. Care about your students; carefully prepare your lessons; stay on top of your game. Income will be commensurate with experience and professionalism just like everywhere else.

Andy123 · Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 206

Mr.Poe this is not a personal attack but I disagree with this statement.

inhanoi · Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 165

Sorry, Andy, but while no one would disagree with the general caution of your comments, the figure "95%" is hyperbole, not fact. There are many schools for which Poe's comments are true, far more than your remaining 5%!

LettersAthruZ · Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 466 Location: North Viet Nam

1st Sgt Welsh · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:57 am Post subject:

inhanoi · Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 165

The same is true in Hanoi. Backpackers are laughed at by most schools. And the students would never accept such low standards. Hanoians are especially picky about value for money. These overblown dramatic statements don't help anyone.

LettersAthruZ · Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 466 Location: North Viet Nam

inhanoi · Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 165

Actually, these overblown statements about backpacker hiring can ASSIST cheap-end management shills, as such statements give an inaccurate picture of the hiring situation and can attract backpackers.

Not just adults students, most parents care deeply about their kids' futures, and don't want to pay merely for a white face in the classroom. Such views are sadly cynical.

Anyway, what's needed on this forum is balance, so that people seeking information hear both sides on these issues, whether facts or opinions. So these discussions are healthy.

mark_in_saigon · Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 837

and thanks to everyone for not getting personally wound up over differences of opinion. We always seem to have one active thread that turns into a debate over some point about working or living here. That is great, but you know, the original post gets kinda forgotten some of the time. Maybe this one is working its way back to the original topic. I do think it would be great if we had permanent threads for the various topics that keep coming up, so the older postings would be more accessible. OP could have found his answers in some previous threads I think.

My 2 cents: there are certainly some low standards to be found all over VN, and that includes ESL. Low standards can also be found in higher quality schools (or higher perceived quality may be more accurate). Low standards often is just a symptom of the general incompetence all over VN, not just education. I have seen that even schools with decent enough reputations can pay lower wages (15 seems low to me). That may be a lot though when you consider the simplicity of some of this work, and what they pay the natives.

About an earlier point, I think if you truly are a professional, which is pretty rare over here, (though likely this board has a higher share), then you should eventually be able to do okay. But, it is not an overnight thing, we all have to suffer thru a learning curve on dealing with this system, despite our western skills. You can find high quality teachers at low quality schools, and the reverse as well, but over time, professionals should be able to elevate themselves to a decent enough position in life here.

I do think it is the case that we have an influx of folks that really would not be considered capable of teaching English in the west. I think these folks are getting jobs at some medium to lower range schools, and certainly they do not elevate wages overall. I recently saw a big name place (one of the franchises, maybe not the best branch of this chain) where over half the teachers were from nations that do not use English as a first language. This was an outlying location (but still in HCMC) where there is not the same density of foreigners. Pretty surprising. Even more surprising, some of the VN teachers who interfaced with them at their public schools did not even realize this was the case. Not because the expats had such good accents, but because the VN were so clueless. Not sure what the Asian English teachers were making there, but the Europeans/Spaniards/Africans were still making $15.

I still think that the issue of dollar per hour is overblown, I know that some of us spend a lot of time running from place to place, or doing unpaid work, or only getting minimal hours, or subjecting ourselves to dreadful conditions, and to my mind, those issues become more important than the differences in dollar per hour.