Job Discussion Forums

MadGoldfish · Joined: 28 Apr 2011 Posts: 30

Hey guys, I need the definitive answer on this as there seems to be a lot of conflicting information around.

Can a school cancel your visa?

Cheers!

P.S - Spring's here woohoo!

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:32 am Post subject:

Short answer is NO! Only the migration authorities have the power to do this. There is no conflicting legal information about that: just some bosses will try to scare you into believing that the schools themselves can do so. They cannot.

But what they can do is trick you into surrendering your passport, and then they can go to the migration authorities and tell them that you are leaving your job and so get the visa stamped cancelled.

Moral of the story: once you have the visa in passport NEVER ever hand it back to your boss, especially if there is some potential conflict between you. Without your passport, no boss can touch you visa-wise. They would have to present a legal case for your dismissal to the authorities, which you can appeal, and which they would be very hesitant to pursue. Tax dodges make them very reluctant to go to court etc.

Spring is here and the snow is melting! Woo hoo!

MadGoldfish · Joined: 28 Apr 2011 Posts: 30

Thanks a lot for the reply, I'll pass that on to my friend and put his mind at rest!

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject:

No worries, mate. But if your friend is having problems, it is best to contact a Russian lawyer and get the required information directly. It is surprising the number of labour code violations that bosses blithely assume they can get away with just because teachers are foreign. We have practically the same rights as locals. And even more surprisingly, labour courts usually favour the lowly worker.

If your boss is an underworld king-pin on the other hand....

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

Only the immigration authorities can actually cancel the visa. However, the visa is only applicable to work with the specified employer. So if you or your employer decide to part company, the visa is no longer valid and you should not be staying in the country.

If you decide to leave them and choose to stay on, then your employer (in my opinion) is within their rights to report this to the immigration authorities. Indeed, if they wish to hire more native speakers in future, they probably have to do so.

If the situation is that the employer is merely playing games and trying to wield a lever, then they are also vulnerable, as suggested by other contributors.

Foma87 · Joined: 13 Sep 2011 Posts: 116 Location: Moscow

Nonsense.

The visa is still valid until its expiration date and you are absolutely within your rights to be staying in the country (even after migration is informed). If the company tells you otherwise, they are either ignorant of the rules or fear-mongering.

This happened to me almost right after a 6 month work visa had been issued to me and I had no problems. I just had to get a new visa after its expiration.

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

Well I hope what you are saying is accurate as your advice could cause serious problems if not. The visa is based upon an invitation from the employer and has the employer's name on it. It seems a little peculiar to say that employment status is irrelevant in such a situation.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:40 am Post subject:

I'm not totally sure if that is accurate information. It could be - I just don't know. In any case, it is a rare employer who would inform the authorities that you have parted ways, for the reasons mentioned above. So whether one has the right to remain or not becomes moot - nobody is going to be chasing after a TEFL teacher. But to be safe, I have always transferred to another visa sponsor as soon as feasible. I wouldn't trust the migration boys to know their own laws either...

Foma87 · Joined: 13 Sep 2011 Posts: 116 Location: Moscow

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject:

Hee heee, that's all very well in practice, but does it work in theory?!!!

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

'In practice' and what is legal are not the same things. Given that 'in practice' may not be the same in different offices - and even in the same office at different times - I still think that the advice being given is very dangerous. Note also what one contributor tells us about the behaviour of one particular school on another thread:

"Low. There's a choice word for this semi-criminal outfit. Low. Like telling you that they need your passport to get you new registration and then going to the migration authorities and having your visa cancelled. Dirty is another word too."

This tells us that, like it or not, a school can have your visa rescinded.

So, I would repeat my point: working visas are specific to the inviting organisation. If you want to stay on having parted company, you are taking a chance. If you take a chance and mess up then not being able to return to the country is a likely outcome.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:57 am Post subject:

Yes, Cole, that is true. but the example you have re-pasted illustrates the danger of parting with passport once visa is in it. As happened in above mentioned case.

So, as I never tire of repeating, the schools themselves cannot cancel your visa, only the authorities can. But if the school has your passport and can submit it to them, then the authorities can be 'nudged' into stamping a nice big 'cancelled' on the visa.

And then you do have to leave the country sharpish...

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

I think you are being a bit too liiteral. Yes, I know the original purpose of the posting, but I am using the fact embedded in it to make a different point.

Yes, I realise that the school can't do it themselves, but they can (and in the cited case, did) encourage the immigration authorities to do so. It's a bit like saying that Henry VIII didn't killl two of his wives, his axeman did! Seriously, your visa has the name of the employer on it; this does stand for something and I think people are gambling if they act independently of this.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject:

Perhaps you are confusing me with the other poster. Even so, my advice is legally sound. The school can do nothing, not for the want of trying, if they don't possess your passport. The migration boys won't listen to them with out that.

If the school tells migration you were fired, they need to produce a document signed by you that this is true, and that all outstanding payments etc. have been settled. So, be careful what papers you sign for them too. Of course, the school often submits docs with forged signatures, as is the case with IPT and their Russian language contract, which you never see, but has your 'signature' on it for the visa process.

There are many complexities to firing an employee in Russia. We have rights, foreign or Russian, makes no difference. But for foreigners, we make the employers' life incredibly simpler by handing over the passport. To take your allusion a little further, we put our own heads on the block...

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

I give up!