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[igorG]

[Miles Smiles]

[Miles Smiles]

Mr. Slapntickle:

I've reread some of your recent posts. I am unsure of your agenda, but whatever it is, I think that you need a little education:

"...If British universities are falling then obviously others are rising to take their place. What the article notes is a "power shift from West to East" with strong performances "from universities in East Asia". Although not located exactly in East Asia, China still puts in a very good performance..."



Since when is China NOT in east Asia? The People's Republic of China comprises MOST of east Asia. Perhaps you're confused because you've got a different worldview because you're from some place many of us participating in this discussion are not from.

"..Dan Harris in his Chinalawblog notes the resentment and anger that American College students feel towards students from China..."


This is all anecdotal, stereotypical, and certainly not what I have observed of all Asians in the schools that i attended and taught in.

Why would American students even care about Chinese students? Chinese nationals aren't in American school because of some sort of affirmative action to bring more Chinese nationals into the country. It's quite the opposite. Many of the larger west coast and east coast schools and all of the Ivy League schools place quotas of the number of Asian students that they allow to enroll.

�My friend with a 3.8 GPA and 650 SATs didn�t get in and had to go to ______. I know he/she would have contributed far more to the school than these students from China.�

Once again, this is goofy in light of the stiff competition that ALL Asians face when they apply to most west coast, east coast, and all of the Ivy League schools.

Slapntickle, my friend, I suggest that you develop a more positive attitude toward Chinese students. It will improve your students' ability to learn and your ability to teach. You might even come across as a happier person.

I also think that it's a bad idea for you to publish all of those negative anecdotes reported on that blog. Most of us don't hold Chinese students in such low regard as you do. This forum is read by foreign teachers and Chinese teachers (as you well know). Try not to give the impression that foreign teachers hate their students as you seem to hate them.

[Miles Smiles]

1) They can get easy certs of graduating their local high schools.

Do you mean faked transcripts? Sure. I am sure one can get them in the U.S. What do you think happens when the foreign student (who faced stiff competition to be accepted) arrives and it is found out that he cannot speak English and cannot understand his professors?

2) They can get their official applications to the western unis well filled in.

Do you mean that a foreign student can get someone to fill out their applications? That's really not a problem, nor is it unethical. When I applied for graduate school, I had the secretary of the grad school help me with the form because the form asked ambiguous questions. Getting help at this point is a good idea.

3) They can get prepared for their interviews.

What's wrong with preparation? Unless things have changed during the past six years, Skype interviews aren't part of the application process for post-secondary studies in the U.S. as they are for foreign teachers in China.

4) They can take ACT exams on mainland which are acceptable to varieties of private American unis and some others consider the tests as well.

In the U.S. high school students take the SAT (not the ACT) as part of the process. In some cases, the American student may retake the test if he took the test nine months prior to his graduation from his high school. The scoring, however, favors the early test-taker. I imagine that the same rules apply to non0American student

5) They can abroad re-take their language proficiency tests, if too low, and that after they are accepted on their conditional offers from unis.

I am unsure how prevalent this is in the U.S.. Given the quotas imposed upon Asian students, the competition is very tight where most of the Asian students apply to attend college. Public colleges and universities really don't want to add the expense of re-administering proficiency tests to foreign students. In fact, many American colleges and universities don't even have programs for foreign students. In many cases, the colleges and universities farm out the foreign students who have language problems that the freshman classes cannot handle to organizations such as ELTI (English Language Training Institute) that have small facilities on-campus.

6) They can switch higher educational institutions abroad in the event they do not succeed in the original one.

American students can (and do) do this. This is not as feasible a solution for a foreign student as one might think. Usually, by the time a student (American or foreign) realizes that he cannot pass the course work, it is too late to apply to a new school. Out-of-state and foreign students are usually required to apply for admission much earlier than in-state students because their processing time is longer and more complicated. Some state schools require a student (in-state, out-of-state, and foreign alike) to sit out for the period of one semester to one year before applying to another school or re-applying to their old school if they leave the school for academic reasons or leave before the end of the semester for any reason. In some cases cases, they must gain permission to reapply. They must get a letter from one or more department faculty members to accompany their application for readmission. NO FACULTY MEMBER wants to back a loser.

Many American colleges and universities will not accept foreign and out-of-state students who are on academic probation or who have flunked out of their first school because they don't meet the academic requirements set by the accrediting agencies of their schools. In-state students have a lot more leeway in such matters because state schools are chartered to serve the resident state population.

Note: These practices may not apply to all U.S. colleges and universities. There are exceptions to every situation. However, most public U.S. colleges and universities operate similarly. My point is that it is no walk in the park for a foreigner to gain admission to and to remain in U.S. colleges and universities. In addition, not every public college and university is chartered to accept foreign students.

Perhaps British colleges and universities have absolutely no admissions and retention standards (as many posts suggest), but I believe that some of what has been said about western colleges and universities is based upon a lack of knowledge of how they operate.

I wonder just how many of those who are bashing Chinese students who are admitted to western schools have attended a western college or university themselves.

[Miles Smiles]

There's a difference between "agenda" and "point of view". You might want to look up both words.

Should one consider everyone who disagrees another delusional?

I wouldn't call you delusional. Misinformed, jaded and biased would better describe your position, words which lack the pejorative connotation which is really unnecessary and inappropriate in this discussion and forum.

I prefer to inform rather than to attack.

Where have you attended school in the west? It certainly sounds as though you attended and taught in schools other than ones in the U.S..

[slapntickle]

[Miles Smiles]

I apologize if you feel that I am patronizing you. I'm not. I am trying to inform you.

You seem to be quite conflicted about your feelings toward Chinese students. In one post you quote the Chinalawblog in which the supposed law professor quotes negative assertions by his students about the quality of Chinese students (assertions with which which you seem to agree).

On one hand, you posit that Chinese students who attend western schools are, generally, lazy, dishonest people who have nothing to contribute, but on the other you state


" In the future, people really will be comparing the cost and value of getting a degree from say "Oxford or Harvard" with getting one from "Fudan or Peking".

The educational system that you tar with one brush, you paint a glorious picture of with another.

You can't have it both ways.

Do the two schools that you cite even have air conditioning or heat, and western toilets in all of the rest rooms? Do you even know?

You say that you are a lecturer in both eastern and western schools. Do you mean that you have been/are a lecturer -level teacher, or are you saying that you are engaged to lecture in both the Asian schools and western schools?

If the latter is the case, you must be quite an important person. Could you direct me to some of your publications? This is a chance for you to boost your visibility and reputation.

I seek your knowledge. Really.

[slapntickle]

[Lobster]

Judging a person's intelligence based on their second-language abilities is the type of idiocy I'd never expect from someone who considers themselves an educator. I've given lectures at universities too. I guess that makes me a Visiting Lecturer as well. Does that add some value to my BA in Applied Linguistics? I don't think most western universities are going down the flush quite yet. If they have hit bottom, there's not much prestige to be gained by working at a top British university. Kind of like being proud of having cleaned the bathrooms at the Ritz.

RED

[Miles Smiles]

Slap,

Okay, you're knowledgeable of top British schools. So according to you, I can get into virtually any British school just by bribing someone or forging transcripts. Furthermore, you are telling me that if my performance is poor, I can graduate with a fancy degree as well?

I take it that you graduated from a British school. Your argument doesn't do much for your educational credibility at all. That's quite unfortunate. I'd hate to be in such a position.

I didn't graduate from British Universities. I graduated from American Universities as did most of my family (brother, sisters, cousins and their children, aunts, and uncles). Many of them attended and some now teach in schools that you would recognize in an instant. They'd also disagree with you regarding your opinions of American universities and their admission practices.

Regardless of any Chinese institution's fine reputation, very few westerners will be attracted to a school in which they will pass out from the summer heat in class, freeze to the bone during winter, and battle mosquitoes in the dormitory. Let's not even approach squat toilets and limited showering facilities found at even some of the better Chinese universities.

I can understand reticence to divulge your name and/or publications, but i don't understand your reason. Reprisal? Reprisal for what?

[slapntickle]

[igorG]

[igorG]

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

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[Dedicated]

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