Job Discussion Forums

[AnneCO]

In an interview, I was told that some students frown on music so using music in a lesson is not advisable. I thought even conservatives had music and dancing at weddings?

Has anyone ever used music in a lesson in Saudi Arabia? (I'm of course figuring the music would be carefully chosen with appropriate lyrics.)

[nomad soul]

I've taught in two different unis, and music in the classroom was haram in both teaching situations. I did, however, ask one of my classes to sing the Saudi national anthem for me in honor of Unification Day, and they happily obliged. Still, music and dancing is usually reserved for private functions or in the home.

[AnneCO]

Thanks NS. I just had never thought about it. I've found music useful for learning Spanish; I try to give myself a "brain worm" with some song so a phrase or lyric sticks.

This view of music (okay at private functions but not elsewhere) seems consistent with the inconsistencies of the countries.

[battleshipb_b]

It really depends. The most popular male singer in the Middle East is a Saudi - Mohammed Abdu - and the royals regularly attend his concerts.

The problem is the salafist mentality which aims to suppress anything that does not support their agenda and that includes music.

[Puddlesz]

I would avoid it as much as possible as music is haraam in Islam. However, many people in Saudi do overlook this despite their "salafist mentality".

[2buckets]

I worked for PCA and we used Kernel Lessons which used a 30 second musical introduction to the reading component, (Scheherazade (Rimsky-Korsakov). Some students complained and we were told to skip this musical introduction.

On the other hand, during breaks, other students brought out their ouds and drums and played away in the garden.

Be selective.

[AnneCO]

I'd never heard of Salafists before and have now added it to my vocabulary.

I know there are some Christians who disapprove of dancing although I don't know why. I believe one of the psalms says, "Praise him with timbrel and dance." (not sure what a timbrel is.)

Is there something specifically against music in the Koran? Or is this just another of those inconsistencies? I suppose what I'm calling inconsistent is actually the heterogeneous nature of any religion practiced by unique individuals and groups.

[Mysterious]

In reply to the "salafist" comments.. you gotta be a bit careful on that one. I say this only because people take word "salafis" and use it in the wrong way or understand it in a wrong way.

Salafi is basically those people who follow the orthodox way of Islaam, which is going back to the generations of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and taking from their works and implementing that into our daily lives.

Music is definitely haraam in the forms of instruments (except for the drums which are used at weddings and on the battlefield for encouragement, etc). To answer your question, AnneCO, it isn't clearly stated really in the qur'aan as such, but has definitely been reported in hadeeths (sayings and actions of the prophet Muhammad) to show that it is disallowed and disliked. And part of our religion is to go by not only the qur'aan itself, but also the sayings and actions of the prophet, as he was a Messenger.

Now, like any other religion, you will find some people who completely follow that and stick by it, then you will find those who believe that we should not use the instruments, but use it anyway because they feel weak (so they will not be the sort who reject your claims saying that it is haraam), and then you'll find those that will just think that you're being harsh for not using/listening to music with instruments.

So for this reason, there are a lot of inconsistencies, for sure, regarding music in general. I wouldn't say it's the "salafis" as such, causing this to happen, 'cause it is a Muslim country and there are groups of people who are trying to follow the right from wrong when it comes to certain issues, and trying to keep to the orthodox way of living, which isn't a bad thing at all. However, when you have those who listen to music, then it puts a stronger emphasis on those that do not listen to music as being the ones who are out of order.

Apologies for the long reply, but I hope that's helped you.

[johnslat]

Dear Mysterious,

What's your opinion - would you say there are more Muslims who think music is haraam or more who don't see it that way (not in Saudi, but worldwide.)

Regards,
John

[Mysterious]

Hmm, that's a tough one, John.
I wouldn't know for sure, but based on the types of people who follow the orthodox way of Islaam, I'd say there are far more who are okay with music 'cause of the modernisation of religion/s. Finding people who actually follow any religion exactly how it should be is not as common as those who blindly follow or pick and choose as they wish. I think this is probably the same of Christians and the Jews, as well.

I have to say though, in the UK alone, from the Muslims that I have met and the general 'vibe', years ago, it was mostly frowned upon, but because of where we live, I think muslims have just "weakened" themselves and have made excuses to listen to music (and are now making more and more of their own using instruments, etc). Which is understandable, everyone has weaknesses, but then you find that people start making excuses for their weaknesses by trying their best to find anything in the religion that supports all music, which I think is going too far, of course (and again, this adds to the inconsistencies).

It's a bit like finding people who celebrate Christmas. I mean, how many people who celebrate Christmas are actually Christians or even believe in a God? And then how many Christians do you find that don't even pray at all? Same with Muslims.

I don't mean to slag people off with my comments above. I just think that if people are saying they are from a certain religion, then they should try their best to follow things, if they can't, then they can't, but what they shouldn't do is try to change what the religion was meant to be originally. One of my pet hates. And it's not just for Islaam, either. I feel this way about all religions.

Sorry, I waffle.. heh..

[AnneCO]

Thanks Mysterious. Your explanation does help. I was reading wikipedia trying to figure out a base meaning for the word. Your explanation was better. I've been reading about SA and Islam for sometime and somehow completely missed the view of music.

[ultraman111]

Well I plan on taking my electric guitar and big Amp.

Teach them Raudi's how to Rock n Roll.

[cmp45]

[rainbowprof]

interestingly wikipedia lists these Rock and metal artists from Saudi Arabia:

The AccoLade
Al-Namrood
Breeze of the Dying
Creative Waste
Crescent Light
Cribcaged
Deathless Anguish
Disturb the Balance
Final Serenade
Flesh Laceration
Forgotten
Grieving Age
Hed2Ground
Immortal Pain
Inversion
Mephisophilus
Myth
Octum
Outlive
PhiViper
Premonition
Rivers Running Red
Sandstoned (disbanded)
Sound of Ruby
The Empty Quarter
Wry Wreathe
Wasted Land

and I understand the cd and musical instrument shops are well frequented. A country of contrasts. The article "Saudi Folk Music Alive and Well"

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200702/saudi.folk.music.alive.and.well.htm

from the Saudi Aramco World (vol 58:2) is very informative. Music would not seem to be haram for all Saudi's, and seems to be a vital part of their culture and national identity. But as a teaching device, Western music may be inappropriate. I wouldn't know. Many people equate language with culture, so if one is teaching English there will doubtlessly be a smidgen of culture passed along. 'Native speakers' are in demand for a reason. Hard to state exactly what that reason might be, but cultural ambassadors probably plays a part.

[johnslat]

Dear rainbowprof,

"But as a teaching device, Western music may be inappropriate. I wouldn't know."

It would be - I do know.

Regards,
John