Job Discussion Forums

[AnneCO]

I have heard somewhere that Islam restricts images to a certain extent. I can't remember where I heard this but I know there are never statues or pictures in mosques. Also arn't images of the prophet strictly forbidden?

With this in mind, are images in books okay? What about picture books for children?

After my gaffe about music and the helpful feedback here, I thought I had better pick the brains of the community.

Thanks

[Mysterious]

I'll answer this according to what I believe (though I know some might differ).

We believe that drawings of people and pictures of people should not be taken. I know some Muslims will read that and roll their eyes (because they take them), but I'm not bothered, because I consider myself as an orthodox Muslim. There are reasons for why we don't do it.. 1. We believe we shouldn't try to imitate what God has created (because He is the Creator) in terms of souls/humans, because we've also been told that we'll be asked to recreate them, and also for the fact that it's not allowed in the religion means that if we're deliberately doing it, it can lead us to be sinful. We also believe Angels don't enter rooms where there are pictures (this is the same issue with dogs, though I won't go into that one).

It does go deeper than this. The majority of Muslim scholars believe that things are based around ones intentions, as well (and God knows our intentions best). For example, it's okay to have pictures in books because that is with a purpose -- to educate. However, if you've got pictures of people up just for the fun of it, then those are the types that are forbidden. I do not take pictures of people or draw people or display pictures of people in my house. However, I do have pictures in my kids books, etc, for the intention to educate. And if I draw my own pictures for my kids, then I tend to do the outline of the body and skip the facial details (which is a good thing, anyway, as my drawing can probably hurt ones' eyes because they are that awful!).

Likewise, I do not take pictures of my children, either. Not ones just to keep hold of. However, I do take identity pictures, for passports, etc, but also for backups in case I were in ever a position where my kids had been separated from me, God forbid.

I've had people in the past get really sarcastic about this issue to me, even though I don't preach it to others at all. So I'm simply answering your questions based on my orthodox views, and I know you'll respect that. And I hope others will just leave it be.

And yep, images of the Prophet Muhammad are strictly forbidden and disrespectful.

Hope that helps! x

[Mysterious]

Just to add, this is just my own views and experiences. I'm not actually sure how this implements into a classroom, for example ('cause I'm not a teacher). But hopefully someone else can answer that. I do know that my husband teaches out of a textbook that the university provided which has plenty of pictures, so I suspect it's not that big an issue as the music thing.

And I forgot to say images and statues in mosques are definitely a no-no, so what you heard was right.

[AnneCO]

Thanks. That was just what I was asking.

So even an Orthodox Muslim would be okay with a teacher putting pictures up for the purpose of learning a particular lesson? How common are children's picture books in Arabic?

Thanks again.

[Mysterious]

You're welcome, Anne.

Yes, that's correct, and many of the scholars hold that view that it's okay to use material like that for teaching purposes. Of course, where possible, people will use or draw pictures of their own that have no faces, but yes, I personally would not have issues with a teacher using such material. And I can assure you, my view is definitely not of the majority view, so I think you're safe on that issue. Again, like the view about music (in your other thread), people change over time, religious interpretations change over time, and what was once not acceptable becomes acceptable, due to people wanting to change the religion because they find that they can't change themselves to suit the religion.

I'm not actually in Saudi yet, so I wouldn't know about the children's books, but my husband bought some English and Maths books for my kids and those have pictures. I'm not sure about their traditional/cultural books, though. I think in that case pictures will be everywhere, but within "modesty". You wouldn't see inappropriate pictures of men, women and children. Of course, the word "inappropriate" is open for interpretation based on ones views and the laws of the country...

Again, I hope this helps.
Are you currently in Saudi or looking to move there for teaching? I'm sorry if you've stated it already (and I've missed it?).

Night night.

[hieroglyphs]

I'm going to be going to KSA this year. I have a great interest in photography, so maybe this would be a good time to bring this up: How sensitive are the Saudis about taking pictures? If I take a photo of, say, a street scene or a market that includes people, would that be likely to upset anybody?

[nomad soul]

[fledex]

Only problem I heard of was when one teacher photographed a palace. Don't photograph palaces or government buildings. The rest is pretty much normal, ask permission before taking pictures of people. A few don't like to be photographed for religious reasons. Not many, though. Plenty of people are taking pictures at Hajj and in the great mosque in Medina.

[sharter]

You don't have pictures of your kid...did I understand you correctly? People keep photos of loved one with the intention of remembering loved ones at different times throughout life. I think that's a great thing. People paint and draw for pleasure and to give pleasure. Is that a bad thing? The intentions seem pretty pure to me.

Who defines 'intentions'? It's surely between you and Allah and no-one else. Intentions often depend on perspective.

Furthermore, Islamic journalists love using pictures to denigrate certain religions, countries and their leaders. It seems that only pictures that suit Muslims are halal. That how the non-Muslim majority in the world see it. It's certainly how it's viewed by your average Jo in Europe.

[stevepip]

I think Muslims have problems with topics such as this. The reason is that the Quran is their guide book but such things as photography and tv were not around in Muhammad's (pbuh) time. So religious scholars have to use the Korean and Hadith to try and say what the islamic point of view is but opinions differ.

Steve

[cmp45]

I think there is a strong link to the notion of worshiping false idols...as many religions accept praying to a statue, an image or some sort of shrine where as in Islam this is supose to be forbidden.
These days, various forms of photography and fine art are becoming more acceptable within mainstream society as an alternative form of entertainment and for decorative purposes, rather than being thought of as something that may lead a person astray.
Guess it depends on how you interpret the "book" and forced to follow what others in authority have to say about it.
Their country; their rules.

[johnslat]

Dear hieroglyphs,

It's another "grey area" (there are LOTS of such areas in Saudi) similar to music, but, I'd say, less grey - especially these days when virtually every Saudi has a cell phone with (gasp) a camera.

But even back in the early 80s, I took lots of photos in the Kingdom, though both then and now, you need to be cautious. I wouldn't, for example, whip put my camera/cell phone and just start snapping photos of strangers in, say, a mall. But I took many photos down in Batha (the old souk area in Riyadh) of such places as the gold and rug shops AFTER asking the owner if that was OK (I never got a "No!".)

cmp45 is right; it IS linked to "graven images," which is why, especially in the past, so much Islamic art used geometrical patterns - and why calligraphy became such an important art form. Making an "image" is seen (by some) as trying to "imitate Allah," who alone can create. One of Allah's names is Al Musawwir, which means "The One who is the fashioner and former of each and every thing in all of creation."

So, take your camera, but you should remember that shooting "a street scene or a market that includes people" is risky. Personally, I wouldn't do it. The odds are there'll be at least someone in that scene/market who, if they notice, could raise a big fuss.

Regards,
John