Job Discussion Forums

[wix]

I agree that salaries are generally declining or even stagnant. An exception is China. However, this is because salaries there have historically been very low and also there is a massive demand for teachers. Typical salaries in China have been in the 3-4k yuan/month range with some even lower, but more and more schools seem to be offering 6-8k yuan/month. I think that salaries will probably settle around that level in the medium term.

[RSB]

reality - I don't know where or for how long you've been doing your research but you are so WRONG about China. Salaries have gone up and continue to go up in the progressive areas while some of the poorer provinces remain on the lower side but are still going up. A friend was working in northern China two years ago for 3,000RMB a month, a high salary at that time. Today the same school is paying 7,000.

We are currently at a college earning 5,000RMB for 18 hours per week and were offered 7,000 to stay but decline because we've been offered, without looking, 8,400 in what we feel is a nicer city for the same teaching hours. We are also getting 180RMB an hour for part-time work at another college and could get more but we just accepted what they offered without negotiating.

wix - I hope you're wrong about the medium term but the trend may be starting. Schools that were offering 8,000 last year are at the same level while those at the lower end have moved up, some drastically.

cam - Part of this whole situation, as you and others point out, is supply and demand. Bashing and blaming Canada and South Africa for what you perceive as their part in the oversupply is unfortunate and ridiculous. We've met our fair share of EFL people that fit your demographic from other English speaking countries too. Take a look at some of these other economies as well.

The supply end of things took a bit of a hit with 7-11, another with the Iraqi war and is going through another with SARS.

In China in particular, the demand is far outstripping the supply between their entry into WTO, the Olympics and their desire to become more an active part of the world economy. It is taking a bit of time though, for it to sink in that they won't attract the numbers of teachers they want without upping the ante.

[RSB]

Sorry - I meant the tragedy of 9 -11. Spell check can't check something it doesn't know.
RSB

[cam]

Well I am not sure why you were so upset about my comments. I only stated a fact that Canada is producing many graduates who lack skills to find a job in thier homeland. This is true of many countries. I am not sure of your connection to backpackers. In my case, I have a MA from McGill but the job openings in Canada are quite limited. Reality......

[RSB]

"Well I am not sure why..." ...perhaps if your first post had the generalization of your second "This is true of many countries." ...rather than the specific and limiting "As long as Canada and South Africa continue to..." then people may not have taken it as an affront and been... "so upset about my comments".

Just a thought.

[Roger]

Thanks, RSB, you set the record right! I did not think cam could not work out for himself (herself?) why I reacted that way! An affront is an affront, whether some singles out SOuth Africans or Canadians, or both, or others as folks that help lower the salaries in China or anywhere else!
I take particular exception to such comments as I have been here since the early 1990's, starting at a salary of 1300 RMB (which at that time was worth 2500 RMB, considering the old exchange value of the RMB). I never thought at that time I was ever going to be able to invite someone to a restaurant in a five-star hotel or for a drink to the HARD ROCK CAFE! Now, in the 21st century, so many things are so much better, including our salaries - I don't want a one-year "veteran" to envy me my income! And unlike the majority of newcomers, I think very hard before I quit a job over some disagreement or other with my employer! I normally stick it out through thick and thin not so much out of my own interest but also in the interest of my learners! I don't think that this is a character trait readily to be found in many newcomers!
While I know that most employers are highly opportunistic and unscrupulous, I must add that their selfishness is more than adequately matched by the same qualities in many new expat teachers!
Is China going the way Taiwan has gone - where expats are jealously protecting their perceived own turf, viewing any stray visitor with total mistrust and envy?

[reality]

I am not an expert on China, only judging from reading current Job Advertisements in China. Perhaps China is one of the few Countries, where Contract hours are not stagnent or declining.

However, I noticed in Indonesia, some Schools are not paying much
more than before the economic crisis in 1998. Whilst others have doubled
or even dollarized there Salaries.

Yet, on the whole, Teacher salaries are no better, than they were in the late 1990�s. To me, thats scary, especially if you choose ESL work as
your chosen career.

[Keith_Alan_W]

[ls650]

[william wallace]

nil

[JZer]

[Keith_Alan_W]

dbl post

[Keith_Alan_W]

Maybe the people of the world have figured out the situation concerning most English Teachers' lack of ability and are now simply only willing to pay for the entertainment value rather than the educational value of English schools? Thus the lower wages.

[sidjameson]

I agree with Keith and the fact that nowdays everybody thinks about teaching TEFL overseas. Things will only get lower.

[JZer]