Job Discussion Forums

[Eunoia]

I'm relatively new to this forum.... anyway, I've just accepted a September position at an international school (not through NET!) in HK, and am looking for some general advice on living in HK. Likely I'd be looking at renting my own apt. (no roommate), and am wondering about costs for rent, utilities, etc.

What would I be looking at in terms of "startup costs" (getting the apt. furnished is apparently included in the rent, I'm thinking about other, neccesary household items; sheets & towels, dishes & etc....) How much ca$h-O-la would you people recommend I bring with me?

Also, what kind(s) of things would you recommend that I bring with me from home rather than purchase in HK? What kind(s) of things that an ex-pat might want aren't readily available?

(I ask this last part because I'm currently living in Korea, and the lack of "western" products leads to some very odd care packages from home... I've visited HK and have seen that there are more goods available, but what kinds of things do you miss / wish that you have brought with you / have sent from home?)

Thanks for your advice and thoughts. Cheers!

[foster]

[quote="Eunoia"]I'm relatively new to this forum.... anyway, I've just accepted a September position at an international school (not through NET!) in HK, and am looking for some general advice on [b]living[/b] in HK. Likely I'd be looking at renting my own apt. (no roommate), and am wondering about costs for rent, utilities, etc.

What would I be looking at in terms of "startup costs" (getting the apt. furnished is apparently included in the rent, I'm thinking about other, neccesary household items; sheets & towels, dishes & etc....) How much ca$h-O-la would you people recommend I bring with me?

Also, what kind(s) of things would you recommend that I bring with me from home rather than purchase in HK? What kind(s) of things that an ex-pat might want aren't readily available?

(I ask this last part because I'm currently living in Korea, and the lack of "western" products leads to some very odd care packages from home... I've visited HK and have seen that there are more goods available, but what kinds of things do you miss / wish that you have brought with you / have sent from home?)

Thanks for your advice and thoughts. Cheers![/quote]

Eunoia;

As hongkonger said, you can get most anything that you want in HK. Clothes, furniture, food....it's all here. We have Ikea, which has all that you want to furnish a house as well as nice linens/towels. There is Pricerite for household things, as well as WingOn. We have Gateway, which is a wholesale Import food store. We have Olivers and City SUper for other import foods. There are the $10 shops for small things, like hangers, light bulbs, mugs, stationery, storage (small) containers, cling film etc etc. And many places deliver free of charge. Fortress and Broadway are decent electronics shops.

Now, set up costs.... OI! Hope you are sitting down!

Apartment - at least 3 months rent (2 for deposit plus first month) Depending on where you are living, it could be HIGH. Mine was $28000 HK.
Utilities - I was lucky that mine were connected, but I hear that it is about a $1000 deposit for most of them (power, gas, water). And before anyone says I am wrong, this is what I have HEARD. I am not saying it is gospel.
Phone - If you have a creidt card, they will not take a deposit as long as you pay by CC monthly. You can switch to Autopay after a few months and once you have a bank account.
Transport - CHEAP AS! Get an octopus card ($50 deposit) and add money for the trains and buses) Taxis are cheap (usually)

If there are certain goods that you like, bring them.

Good luck in HK. I love it here!!

[Eunoia]

[foster]

Thats so true hongkonger!! I live in the New Territories, as my school is there, but when i have to go to the Island, well, I would just as soon stay home!!

My friend wants to go to Stanely this weekend. GAH! For me, that is at least a 2.5 hour bus ride.

[jenny-pnet]

Yes and it's not just the time involved in the travel, but the fact that - if you take the KCR or MTR (the trains) - you are likely to be jammed in like sardines in a can for the extent of the journey, standing of course, anything up to an hour and a half or more - plus making changes to different trains as the need arises - very draining on a regular basis. Better to opt for accommodation relatively close by. That's my preference anyway.

[SimonBarrett]

The tourism and travel board welcomes you to Hong Kong. Here are a dozen great reasons why you should visit:

1) The weather is temperate and mild, soaring to 35 degrees and a modest 90% humidity in the summer. Summer lasts from April to December. The winter is cool and crisp with tuberculosis inducing dampness, gale force storms and plenty of thick brown smog from across the border to warm you up.

2) Hong Kong is a shopper's paradise. From pirated software and cheap porno DVDs to "nice suit sir?" and excellent copied watches; there's something for everyone. Prices are reasonable and you can routinely eat out at any fine ethnic or western restaurant on enough cash to feed whole villages in China for a month.

3) The people are honest and friendly. Taxi drivers will take you the long way to anywhere you want to go and charge you twice the price. Be sure to tip them or they might keep your bags. Those funny guys!

4) A close, family feeling. Visit anyone of Hong Kong's suburban mega malls on the weekend and you'll see why. Crammed literally shoulder to shoulder with your fellow shoppers, you'll never feel alone. Too hot in that stuffy arcade? never mind, that little kid's ice-cream jammed against your crotch should cool you down pronto.

5) People are polite. Kindly step aside as the nice old lady graciously elbows her way to the front of the queue. That fat ten year old boy who pleasantly barged in front of you and took your seat just as were about to sit down at McDonalds was playing a harmless practical joke. Make sure you step back and let other passengers off the train before you get on and you can be sure they'll do the same for you...we think.

6) Hong Kong is clean. There is a staggering HKD1500 (US$192) fine for littering or spitting on the street so HK residents and mainland visitors alike are extra careful with their environment. Approximately a quarter million tickets are issued daily.

7) Hong Kong respects the rule of law. The benevolent tycoons who rule Hong Kong with an Iron fist answer regularly to and are closely monitored by the central government of the People's Republic of China. Dissenters will be butchered in the street so you can be sure that everyone adheres to the Basic Law.

Hong Kong is a safe city. As long as you stay away from pubs in Kowloon and the New Territories, and wear your surgical mask at all hours, you'll be perfectly safe no matter where you go. Make sure you get your rabies shots!

9) Hong Kong is healthy. Hong Kong has a long tradition of using the latest medical and scientific techniques to combat frequent outbreaks of deadly SARS, Dengue Fever and Avian Flu.

10) There is plenty of wildlife in HK. From Rabies-infested monkeys and stray dogs to cuddly sewer rats and giant roaches, we have it all. Don't upset the pencil necked wannabe gangsters though. It will look like it takes a dozen of them to take you down, but believe me they can see that too and they'll find a dozen mates before you will.

11) Hong Kong is a historical city. Just this month one of Hong Kong's 6 million construction workers, employed to build and pave round the clock unearthed artifacts in a sewer pipe in Mongkok. The relic was later found to be a 1000 year old traditional Chinese discarded surgical mask! wrapped inside it was an unpaid millenium-old fine!

12) As an English teacher in HK you'll sit comfortably at the bottom of the expat pay scale. While equally well educated investment bankers will ride around in Benzes and drink the finest wine, you'll keep your dignity in your worn out shoes holding a street-beer. The salary and benefits of teaching English include 12-14 hour days and late pay, with frequent weekend work and unpaid travel time, no benefits and more than likely, no MPF. Rent starts at about a third of your salary for a shabby one bedroom flat populated by numerous vermin.


So come, bring your money and your smiles because clean safe and historical Hong Kong waits for you!

[Eunoia]

To Simon Barrett:

Yes.... I've visited HK.... seen a lot of what you mentioned. Maybe you should come to Korea:

1) Summer temps are about the same, but the winters are bitterly cold (and damp!), from November until March. As an added bonus, not one single building in this country is built to handle cold weather - cold drafts seep in from all corners! Make sure you bring extra money to pay for your heating bills in winter....

2) Again, come visit Seoul, the "Shopping Capital of the World" (if you believe AFN...) "Western" food is not only pricey, but it's an adventure trying to find what you're looking for! More often than not, when you DO find it, it's labelled as "Korean/Chinese Fusion" or "Korean/Italian Fusion", or Korean/(insert proper adjective) Fusion"... ("Fusion" just means that they really don't know how to make it properly, so they do it the way they think it should be. After all, we all want sweet potatoes and canned corn on our pizzas, right?) Want Mexican food? Better bring it with you...

3) Korean taxi drivers (and sometimes buses, as happened to me yesterday) often pass by foreigners completely. After midnight the rates go up. Take a taxi out of the driver's "area" and pay an extra premium on top of the fare! And don't forget your Korean/English dictionary, because finding a driver who understands English is like winning the lottery!

4 & 5) Seoul, Seoul, Seoul. Namdaemun Market. COEX Mall. Yongsan. Itaewon. Any sidewalk, any shopping center, any line/queue (if you're lucky enough to find anything resembling a queue...) in any shop, any park on a Saturday afternoon, waiting for a bus... basically you just described something I've been living with for the past 3 1/2 years. Oh, and the constant horking / spitting and dodging puddles of drying vomit on the streets and sidewalks. Next...

6) Fines for spitting! Dang, wish they would try that here....

7) Korean police officers respect the rule of law, which is to say, it's OK to beat your wife or gf, they probably deserved it anyway! As a foreigner, if you ever get into a scuffle with a Korean, you won't have trouble with the police. They will just assume you are guilty, never mind the plethora of witnesses to the contrary. Got contract problems at work? Hey, the contract is just a suggestion, your boss always knows what's right for YOU.

8 ) Seoul is as safe as it gets, so long as you don't take a taxi or bus anywhere (consistently ranked as #1 or 2 highest road-fatality rate in the world....) Go to Itaewon, drink with all the drunken G.I.'s and try NOT to get into a fight with them!

9) Ah, Korea has kimchi to fight SARS. It also works as a breath-activated repellent to all members of the opposite gender... Try to guess which 1 of the last 10 men to come out of the bathroom actually washed his hands! Think about that as you watch the cook at the restaurant come out of the stall, still zipping up, then walk casually out the door back to the kitchen....

10) Roaches, centipedes, tailless stray cats (they had wandered too close to the local children, who made them pay the penalty for being cats, you see)... no stray dogs, though, they usually end up in some tiny pen behind a "boshintang" restaurant... MMmm, soup! Mind you, the zoos here are a real trip - see all the skinny, hungry animals in tiny cages filled with garbage and snack foods thrown by the children at the encouragement of their parents and teachers! Watch the seals choke on plastic cups in their tanks! See the loose folds of skin hanging off malnourished animals! See the nervous twitches of overly stressed animals in despair! But you don't HAVE to go to the zoo~ Lie awake at night and listen to the cries of the neighbor's dogs being beaten (adrenaline makes the meat tender, you see...) Listen to the anguished cries of stray cats being de-tailed - oh, sorry, I mentioned that already... Also, see the note above about the GI's....

11) Open sewers and noxious gas smells are not a quaint, historical antiquity - they are still being used to this day! Inhale that fresh aroma on a sweltering summer's day while strolling through the open markets of Seoul, that wonderful, modern, "World-Class" city....

12) Ridden in Benzes, Beemers, etc., no big deal. And hey, there's nothing better than a good pair of well-worn shoes! I'm not even sure what MPF is, but I know that the school I'll be working for has a private "pension fund/plan" (for want of a better term) set up for its employees.

As for the rest, I've actually been to the school, met many of the teachers (have a good friend working there, in fact), met the bosses, seen some of the apartments the teachers are living in, and every single teacher I spoke to is quite happy with his/her situation. Many of the teachers have been there for several years, and virtually all of the current 1st-year teachers are staying for another TWO years after this.

I think it's safe to say that I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting myself into - and what I'm getting away from.

Thanks for all the GREAT advice....

[Mark-O]

SimonBarrett,

Well, you know what they say: "If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen."

Seems like reasonable advice for you if you truly find Hong Kong to be so repulsive.

[Ludwig]

Is it just me or does there exist a somewhat striking similarity between a couple of the posters here? (I refer of course to style of prose, the number, dates, times, and topics of mesages, and their respective dates of joining.)

[SimonBarrett]

Actually Mark I'm working on it. I have enough savings in the bank to take me anywhere in the world and a private jet on standby. I just thought I'd hang around a stir the pot. C'mon...

In truth we are all affected by our own experiences. Eunoia hated Korea, but I've only heard great things about working there. The privileged NET teachers who came when the money was good, got assigned to a progressive school and never had to go through the hardships that typical English teachers face, will tell you HK is the land of Milk and Honey. Why not, it's been good to them.

I read that Bubba's posts about being ripped off and can relate. I got screwed around too. Like Bubba, I'm trying to get back on my feet after finding out HK was not all it was cracked up to be. Truth is if I had the money to make a new start - even someplace cheap like Thailand or wherever - then I'd leave tomorrow.

Can't get out of the kitchen while the doors locked, but since I've been tugging on the handle for a while now, I reserve the right to complain about the heat.

[Bubba]

Now now SimonBarrett, you're being too harsh on good ol HK. Don't you know...?

In HK an English teacher will make more money than he ever dreamed possible

The streets are paved with gold

The canals and fdrains run with pink champagne

The people are the kindest ever

The women are free and willing and open to all sorts of suggestions

The employers are paragons of honesty and human virtue

The taxi drivers are the most polite, honest and efficient on the planet

The fresh, clean air smells of roses

Residents have a bright future under the free and democratic auspices of the central government

Once you see what a wonderful place it is, how could you ever want to leave. Hong Kong is a utopia!

[Champion...the wonderdog]

SimonBarrett is spot on!

[bizzie]

You ask about living in Hong Kong. Well, Hong Kong is one of those places that sometimes you wake up in the morning and think 'I live in the greatest city in the world'. Sometimes you just need to get out. It can be a little claustrophobic at times. But at the end of the day it's what you make it. I was lucky - I moved to Hong Kong two years ago, on a summer job with Park Language (I didn't have a bad experience with them!) and through searching apartments I managed to find myself a liveaboard. I lived on a 40ft wooden junk for the whole time I was in Hong Kong, and it shed a new light on living in Hong Kong. It's also a breath of fresh air away from the skyscrapers.
I've recently moved to Thailand for work but I miss the place.
Cut to the point, I hear you cry! My boat is still there, it's fully furnished, has a great huge stereo and everything you need to move straight on. It also has a telephone and an internet connection. The boat is moored in Aberdeen, in the south of Hong Kong island and is only 10 minutes by bus from Causeway Bay and 20 minutes from Central. I didn't want to let go of it when I left Hong Kong, so it's up for rent. It has air-conditioning and electricity is inclusive in the rent.
If anyone's interested in finding out more about boat life, I can send you pics. Setting up in Hong Kong to start with can be a little prohibitive, with the cost of furniture and deposits and everything, so for the right person, I'm willing to negotiate on the rent and forego a deposit.
There's a great little community living on boats, including quite a few teachers.

[Ludwig]

I live very close to Sai Kung and, now at least, I doubt if I could ever live anywhere else. Here's a shot from my webcam; this is the view from one of my lounge windows.

This is the busy, dirty, crowded, polluted Hong Kong about which you no doubt have heard so much:

[foster]

Very nice Ludwig. I am sufficiently jealous. I'll have to post my view when I get home from work!