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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Dedicated wrote: |
Everybody who is employed in the UK, up to retirement age, pays National Insurance which goes towards state benefits etc etc.
If you live abroad and want to maintain your state benefits entitlement (eg. pension) it's worth paying. |
Firstly, it's a myth that National Insurance goes into a special separate pot which is used for state benefits etc. It is treated as any another tax and while it does allow you to get the state pension you have to get "qualifying years". That means working consistently through the year.
Paying �450 national insurance and not getting a qualifying year is unfair. So we should be able to reclaim it.
Also you can't claim national health care, JSA, child benefit etc from abroad so there seems to be little point in paying. I suppose if you need an operation or something you could fly back. But I don't think you need proof of NI payment to get access to those things. |
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PC Parrot
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Moral Police Station
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I would say it's unfair of people not to pay tax or national insurance in the UK for 20 odd years and then turn up looking for free health-care, housing, and other state-benefits when they're broke and no longer employable elsewhere in the world ...
That may or may not apply to you ... but while you're working in the UK over the summer, what would you do if you were involved in an accident ... would you expect the British taxpayer to pay for your hospital treatment? |
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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| PC Parrot wrote: |
I would say it's unfair of people not to pay tax or national insurance in the UK for 20 odd years and then turn up looking for free health-care, housing, and other state-benefits when they're broke and no longer employable elsewhere in the world ...
That may or may not apply to you ... but while you're working in the UK over the summer, what would you do if you were involved in an accident ... would you expect the British taxpayer to pay for your hospital treatment? |
Yes that is unfair but it's not geographic. Many people live in the UK for many years without paying tax and are in receipt of benefits during that time. Welfare is inherently unfair because it takes from producers of wealth and gives to consumers.
Actually successful teachers such as me have consistently repatriated earnings to the UK meaning we have considerable taxable assets in the country. I pay UK tax all year round on my savings and investments and, ironically, would have too much saved to be able to receive means tested benefits such as JSA.
Not living in the UK means I pay tax without receiving any benefit. And visiting to work for 6 weeks a year means I pay NI without getting a pension. I think a trip to the doctor's or two is the least I deserve.
The real unfairness is the British underclass who, to use your terms, are broke and can't be employed anywhere in the world. That's why we have to import so many Polish people.
Anyway, I'll just get back to reading the Daily Mail... |
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PC Parrot
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Moral Police Station
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| JimJam wrote: |
| PC Parrot wrote: |
I would say it's unfair of people not to pay tax or national insurance in the UK for 20 odd years and then turn up looking for free health-care, housing, and other state-benefits when they're broke and no longer employable elsewhere in the world ...
That may or may not apply to you ... but while you're working in the UK over the summer, what would you do if you were involved in an accident ... would you expect the British taxpayer to pay for your hospital treatment? |
Yes that is unfair but it's not geographic. Many people live in the UK for many years without paying tax and are in receipt of benefits during that time. |
The difference is that the people who've been doing it in the UK were not (or should not have been) living the life of riley beforehand. The TEFLer who chooses to spend all of his cash on holidays and who makes no provision for retirement will have lead a more active life than a terminal benefit claimant.
At least the people who have worked in the UK but made no provision for old age have paid taxes to the treasury along the way.
Anyway, if you're paying �442.56 in national insurance contributions, why not top it up to the �660 mark and make it a full contributing year .. for each year of payments you have, you will receive a 1/30 part of a pension .. in this way, your �442.56 is not going down the drain ..
For the record, I've kept up with my NI contributions, and I pay UK tax on income from my UK investments .. this year it's about �650 tax and �650 NI .. |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PC Parrot wrote: |
For the record, I've kept up with my NI contributions, and I pay UK tax on income from my UK investments .. this year it's about �650 tax and �650 NI .. |
I have also made most of my NI payments in the 15 years I've been in Asia - actually I missed payments for the first three years, but that won't make much difference to my eventual pension, assuming I make it to 67.
But, regarding the tax on investments mentioned above, I'm wondering what sort of investments require you to pay tax if you're overseas? |
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PC Parrot
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 459
Location: Moral Police Station
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: |
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If you've only missed 3 years, then by the time you're 67, you'll have way more than the required 30 years for a full pension .. I personally won't be paying voluntary contributions after I hit the 30 year period ... 5 to go .. I was lucky and was able to back pay from 2009 all the way to 1996 without paying (much of) a penalty .. apparently the government had made an error in not informing people of their expiring payment periods ... so I was able to jump through the loophole ... it cost me �4,600 and saved me several thousand quid ..
If they fiddle around with the qualifying period later on, which they could well do, I'll either pay a bit more or settle for a part pension ... after all, the state pension is best regarded as nothing more than a little bit of extra pocket money ..
Any income generated in the UK is taxable in the UK .. double taxation treaties exist but generally speaking, bank interest automatically gets taxed at source, share dividends too ..
Property income requires a tax return to be submitted and tax to be paid .. |
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Perilla
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 792
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| PC Parrot wrote: |
If you've only missed 3 years, then by the time you're 67, you'll have way more than the required 30 years for a full pension .. I personally won't be paying voluntary contributions after I hit the 30 year period ... 5 to go .. I was lucky and was able to back pay from 2009 all the way to 1996 without paying (much of) a penalty .. apparently the government had made an error in not informing people of their expiring payment periods ... so I was able to jump through the loophole ... it cost me �4,600 and saved me several thousand quid ..
If they fiddle around with the qualifying period later on, which they could well do, I'll either pay a bit more or settle for a part pension ... after all, the state pension is best regarded as nothing more than a little bit of extra pocket money ..
Any income generated in the UK is taxable in the UK .. double taxation treaties exist but generally speaking, bank interest automatically gets taxed at source, share dividends too ..
Property income requires a tax return to be submitted and tax to be paid .. |
I meant I missed three years of the 15 I've been in Asia. There are other years missing, including three as an undergraduate and one spent wandering around South America. Methinks I've paid around 23 or 24 years of NI in total, give or take.
Actually, I know the pension isn't going to be anything spectacular, but I reckon it'll be very useful income when I'm retired, whatever it amounts to. One thing is for sure, it'll be a lot better than nothing.
So, regarding the tax in the UK thing, basically you own property there and you rent it out - and that's what you pay tax on? |
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JimJam
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 69
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Perilla wrote: |
| basically you own property there and you rent it out - and that's what you pay tax on? |
You pay tax on any interest which is earned in the UK. So that can be interest on savings, bonds, share dividends, property income etc. etc. You also have to pay capital gains (over a certain threshold) on any gains from selling property, shares or other assets which are in the UK. |
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