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Patriotism
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a nation could be small, with few enough people
Even if it had the means to produce more, they'd be useless.
Such a people would know that death is real,
And they wouldn't travel far, even if they were able to.
And they would not vaunt their army or their weaponry.
They would count in their heads again and write by hand.
Their food would be simple, but it would feed them;
Their clothes would be fine, but homely
And they would have fires in their homes.

They would be happy with what they have!
And even though they'd live along the border within earshot
Of their neighbours' c ocks at dawn, and the dogs barking,
They wouldn't mind if they never went there.

It is enough, for them, to live and let live.
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Atlas



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 662
Location: By-the-Sea PRC

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post, Captain Kirk. Never occured to me to go back to the source! That's why you're the captain, baby!

Quote:
Truman wrote:
I think, in general Americans are too provincial and are not aware enough of their personal investment in the affairs of the world as a whole.

I think that this applies to every country in the world. Unfortunately, for the world, Americas huge wealth and military can cause greater calamnity than other individual nations can hope to.


This is a good point! Provincialism, or ethnocentrism, or however you want to look at it, is a very common situation that no country is absolved from. Look at Japan: a very refined, civil culture, that has a lot to teach all of us, but at the same time, is insulated and aloof from non-Japanese. Or France, with it's great history and culture and influence of liberty, and reputation for snobbery. (sorry to single out these two countries, I didn't mean anything by it, I do love them; maybe because I have studied them a little more than others). Or look at some other countries (and subcultures) who use culture as an excuse for military/paramilitary aggression--which says more about the avarice for power than cultural superiority/purity, in my opinion. I can understand the threat people feel by globalization, but does it mean their countries and ways of life are truly at risk? Or is it just an excuse for power-grabbing and self-interest?

Just thinking out loud here. I tell my students, learn English to learn the standards other countries hold their corporations to, and make your own laws that protect you the way other countries are protecting themselves.
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zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't necessarily think of expatriation as a solution for America's problems or even as being against the grain of them.

We think of expatriation as some kind of anit-American thing at times. But the more I look at it, the more American it seems.

And I find that exposure to some foreign cultures makes me less tolerant of them.

Some times I find the starry-eyed love that students have for America as more frustrating than than the America bashing. But then, some of the older teachers who've been there have fond feelings for the place (though not for the food).

As for the nomeclature debate: Pleeeeeeaase. Everybody in the world knows what I mean when I say I'm American. It isn't just our provincialism.

A side note: on my marriage license "nationality" is left blank. My Citizenship is USA but they said there is no such "nationality" as American, they said. My wife has Russian on both lines but I only have citizenship. I couldn't help feeling there was a subtle dig there.
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khmerhit



Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My Citizenship is USA but they said there is no such "nationality" as American, they said.


That's pathetic.

On a similar note, I see in the news that an Australian pol has chastised his countrymen for their Anglophobia. Reminds me of of my Ozzie g/f who used to diss the Queen and got agitated by the sight of a Union Jack. Quite absurd. Where do they think their past lies? Who built the country? Whence its institutions?

TRAFALMADOR?

I'm off to Scotland. The Scots built Canada, along with the French and quite a few Germans. No disrespect, but it wasn't the Philipinos or the Bangladeshis, and certainly not the Trafalmadorans.

Call the PC Police--you'll never catch me where I'm going!

all best

khmerhit Very Happy
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Asynca



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 29
Location: Salgotarjan, HUNGARY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khmerhit wrote:


That's pathetic.

On a similar note, I see in the news that an Australian pol has chastised his countrymen for their Anglophobia. Reminds me of of my Ozzie g/f who used to diss the Queen and got agitated by the sight of a Union Jack. Quite absurd. Where do they think their past lies? Who built the country? Whence its institutions?



Sure there is history there - but do countries that Spain has colonized still fly the spanish flag? I don't think Indonesia would be too happy about flying a Dutch flag, either.

The Queen has absolutely no bearing on our everyday lives and neither does Britain. They may have once but the link is dead.

Where does our past lie? With a British colony that entered the country and set up Prison camps here - and slaughtered, enslaved and harrassed the native Australians living here. Do you think that's a past to be proud of? To enshrine? Before accusing people of being anglophobic - which an extremely simplistic deduction here - take a moment to understand the complex situation of the culture you are passing judgements about.
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