Job Discussion Forums

[Perilla]

�106 a week may not be much, but it's a lot better than zero. There are many Brit retirees more or less living in Thailand and other "cheap" countries on their state pensions. In Spain (which is where I hope to rest my clogs) I reckon twice that amount would constitute a liveable sum now in the absence of any big overheads (eg. property would need to be paid off). Obviously, the more I can add to the state pension (which may be worth less by the time I reach 67) the better ...

[HLJHLJ]

I make my UK state pension contributions, but I am also working on the assumption that I will probably never be allowed to draw it. The payments are small enough for it to be worth the gamble, but I do think it's a gamble.

With regard to pensions in general, the problem is in no way limited to ESL teachers. In the UK millions of people are not saving for a pension (beyond the state pension), and of those that are the vast majority are not saving nearly enough.

The reasons why are well known, first, people would rather have a solid sum of cash in their pocket now than a possible sum in 30+ years, especially when times are tight. Second, pensions are confusing, and scandal after scandal has seriously damaged confidence in them, so people aren't confident in their ability to choose a good one. Finally, people have unrealistic expectations of pensions, so even when a plan performs well it is perceived as being unsatisfactory.

Ask your average upper blue collar or lower white collar worker in the UK about their pension plan, and most won't have a clue what they have in place. If they weren't automatically enrolled in something by their employer, they probably don't have anything arranged at all.

EFL teachers have the added complications of living abroad, tax residency issues, currency fluctuations and few contacts at home to help them find a reliable financial adviser. So I don't find it all surprising that topic isn't a roaring success. It wouldn't be in most fields.

[scholar]

Things are starting to get better for ESL teachers in some locations. In China, foreigners now have access to the pension system, so they can retire in China and draw on the retirement funds if they wish, assuming they've paid in for the proper period of time. Previously they were not permitted to participate, which was not exactly fair.

[Hod]

Can you also get pension payments if you leave China?

I'm asking because I pay into UK and German pensions but don't plan to retire in either of these countries.

If you could pay into the China system, assuming it's any good and offers tax benefits now, it may well be worth doing so if you can get the money later wherever you will be.

[scholar]

Haven't heard of that. You're supposed to be able to get a pension payout as you leave China.

[cormac]

[Perilla]

Hi Cormac,

Based on my own experiences I couldn't agree more. Once upon a time buying property was regarded pretty much as a safe investment; ditto putting your savings into a major bank, and even equities-related savings used to be regarded as safe in the long run.

The last 12 years or so have knocked these mantras on the head, with perhaps as many people losing as gaining by buying property or using savings vehicles. I know heaps of peeps whose (predominately) stocks-based savings have gone backwards, or at best stayed about level, since 2000. For those on the verge of retirement (or retired) these negative developments have been really bad news.

A house I bought in Spain in 2008 is now worth around 40% less and still heading south. A gift of 5,000 UK pounds I invested in equity funds in 1999 is now worth about 4,000 - I know it's not much but it gives an idea of how badly the markets have performed over that time. Of course, some people have gained hugely during the same period by buying and/or selling at the right time, but it shouldn't be such a lottery.

Anyways, so long as we don't have to sell our properties while they're in negative equity they may still come good in time. And meantime we might as well stash the rest of our savings under the bed!

[voltaire]

Retirement? Pension? I just imagined they'll find me slumped dead over my desk in the break room someday.

[Hod]

[scholar]

It is now possible to pay into the China pension system as an expat. Therefore foreign friends will be able to retire in Chine with the same benefits as a Chinese, provided they work in China long enough. So progress is being made.

[naturegirl321]