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| Why did you originally go to teach in China? |
| Not qualified to work in other places |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Want to work minimal hours |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Vices are cheap |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Hard time finding work at home |
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11% |
[ 5 ] |
| Run away from problems back home |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Want to learn Chinese and embrace Chinese culture |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
| Got bored of other places |
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11% |
[ 5 ] |
| Start life over again |
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11% |
[ 5 ] |
| Tricked into going there |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Other |
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38% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 44 |
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scholar
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 159
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 Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Flip-Flopper wrote: |
| scholar wrote: |
China could be a good place for a lot of American families |
You don't sound very knowledgeable about the situation in America. How can they afford $1,000 each, storage costs for their stuff, and then other start-up costs? Heck, I can barely afford it and I'm single! Other places offer up-front airfares, but not China.
If China paid more, I'd for sure be more interested but as it stands it's simply not worth it. I guess if I started 10 years ago, sure. But not now, and not with what I have seen about the cost of living going up in China and inflation. |
In the case of a family of four, the two people getting the jobs should have their airfare covered. It might not be paid upfront, but they can charge it, if they don't have the cash, and be reimbursed later. They can ditch a lot of "stuff," and anything they absolutely have to keep might be stored with relatives. Visa cost should be covered by the jobs. They can choose a job with apartment provided, so startup costs won't be that much. I agree that it is not necessarily easy or free of sacrifice. But wouldn't it be better than sitting home on welfare and food stamps? That's what some of the American middle class is now facing. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| scholar wrote: |
| In the case of a family of four, the two people getting the jobs should have their airfare covered. It might not be paid upfront, but they can charge it, if they don't have the cash, and be reimbursed later. |
You state a family of 4 but only talk about 2 of them. Even then, you're being somewhat optimistic. For many jobs outside of the tier 1 cities airfare consists of roughly 4000rmb... Coming from Ireland to Xian cost me just over 8000rmb (single or return are roughly the same, and most would prefer the safety net of a return ticket). While flights from certain states in the US are cheaper than this, the prices aren't wildly different. So, you're still paying for one adult. And then you also have the cost of two dependents as well.
Then throw in that most contracts stipulate that the airfare will only be paid at the end of the contract period... so its still a serious consideration.
| Quote: |
| They can ditch a lot of "stuff," and anything they absolutely have to keep might be stored with relatives. |
Ditch? have you ever had to part with a decade worth of personal possessions including gifts, mementos, etc? Then consider that in the current economic climate that you would have to sell items at a major loss in value... as for leaving stuff with relatives, thats extremely limited in scope especially for a family of four.
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| Visa cost should be covered by the jobs. |
I've rarely seen the visa costs covered by jobs. The residence permit is covered but we're obliged to get the visa, medical etc in our own country prior to coming over.
| Quote: |
| They can choose a job with apartment provided, so startup costs won't be that much. I agree that it is not necessarily easy or free of sacrifice. But wouldn't it be better than sitting home on welfare and food stamps? That's what some of the American middle class is now facing. |
Nothing has changed from what I said previously. You haven't added any new dimensions to this belief that China would be a perfect destination compared to the costs involved. If anything they would be better off moving to Canada.. |
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scholar
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| If both adults are working then they should both get a flight paid for. I just can't see sitting home on welfare when there are jobs out there. Latin Americans move for work, Chinese move for work, Americans could too. Particularly if one of the spouses is Chinese or has some Chinese ancestry, which a lot of people do nowadays, and they speak a little Chinese, I think it could be viable. Not ideal, but viable and a better route than public assistance. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| scholar wrote: |
| If both adults are working then they should both get a flight paid for. |
As I said before, usually at the end of the contract period. Some do pay up front, but I haven't seen many.
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| I just can't see sitting home on welfare when there are jobs out there. |
Obviously you've never been out of work. There are jobs and then there are jobs. Moving from a position of a Bank director to an ESL teacher, and then hoping to go back to Banking is rather naive. And thats the same with just about any profession where you've spent the last decade building up experience.
After 4 years of ESL experience, I'm pretty much unemployable from the perspective of my previous business roles. I know thats true since I felt that way when I interviewed people myself when I was still in Finance.
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| Latin Americans move for work, Chinese move for work, Americans could too. |
Mass generalisation. Some do, many more don't. And those that do, follow the method I mentioned earlier... moving younger family members into place before the older family members join them. It takes years, and a lot of planning. Throw in that China offers no guarantee of long term visa allowance, your proposal is rather risky. At least when you get a visa for western countries, as long as you fullfill the original requirements its unlikely the government will change things radically. China, however, can easily do that.
And if you're just talking about short term, there are plenty of other factors which show up your viewpoint as being naive and limited in scope.
| Quote: |
| Particularly if one of the spouses is Chinese or has some Chinese ancestry, which a lot of people do nowadays, and they speak a little Chinese, I think it could be viable. Not ideal, but viable and a better route than public assistance. |
HAve you ever paid attention to the manner in which Chinese born/raised abroad are treated in China? I've only known a few that could manage staying in China longer than a year...  |
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mandu
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 794
Location: china
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| I thought it was going to be like Taiwan,I also got my airline ticket paid for by the school before I came here. |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| scholar wrote: |
| If both adults are working then they should both get a flight paid for. I just can't see sitting home on welfare when there are jobs out there. Latin Americans move for work, Chinese move for work, Americans could too. Particularly if one of the spouses is Chinese or has some Chinese ancestry, which a lot of people do nowadays, and they speak a little Chinese, I think it could be viable. Not ideal, but viable and a better route than public assistance. |
I find international travel and living overseas valuable and think it's good for the world. But if I had an American friend with a family, I would recommend public assistance over moving the family to China. It's not ideal, but it's better for the local economy and the children have more stability staying in their home town or neighborhood. (Of course with the tough love scam, public assistance is rare for intact families.) As a single guy, I'm willing to accept some risk of being sick or injured in a foreign country or getting cheated or stranded or whatever. With more responsibilities, I'd probably say no to working in China unless I had a great job lined up that covered a lot of my concerns. |
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sainthood
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I chose the first option, but....
I did a (dodgey) TESOL back home, and I knew China would accept someone's cat if it came from an English speaking country, so getting a job there would be easy, while I worked up the experience, and finished the M.A..
The idea was to work here for a year, then move on.
Now, 3 years later, Ive got the quals and experience I need to be able to go to other countries, but I've found that I can get a pretty good deal here... probably better than most other countries around the world - too much competition in Europe, not a lot of good opportunities in Africa or South America... and Nth America, Aus and NZ don't have really good chances either... Saudi and ME - similar - I feel I can get better deals here... where I can save up and travel easily - after paying off my debts!
And, now, I can do my PhD with good ESL research topics. |
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ymmv
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| sainthood wrote: |
And, now, I can do my PhD with good ESL research topics. |
加油！ |
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Kiwi303
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 165
Location: Chong Qing Jiao Tong Da Xue, Xue Fu Da Dao, Nan An Qu, Chong Qing Shi, P. R China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Back in my first year course at University, the first semester papers for management/business undergrads were the same as the first semester for overseas non-english-native MBA postgrads. Same reason, a simple course so they aren't struggling with a heavy course load at the same time as adjusting to the new life.
While there I ended up in a team doing group work with two chinese and one thai woman.
So I had met and dealt with chinese before.
A few years back ('07) my mother sold her small farm and hought a larger one (62 acres to 740) and I and my elder sister quit our respective jobs and went down south with her to work on the family farm.
Roll on '10 and I was getting bored on the farm, I'm not a farmer born, looking around I found jobs in NZ unsatisfying. I found jobs I could do but didn't want to do, I found jobs I wanted to do but couldn't do. Jobs I could do AND wanted to do were impossible to find.
I branched out to overseas jobs and ran across China TESOL jobs. Tot up a TESOL cert and I landed in Nov '11 and am still here and enjoying myself. |
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WanderAround
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a criminal record, and most schools in China don't care about checking records. |
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therock
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cormac wrote: |
HAve you ever paid attention to the manner in which Chinese born/raised abroad are treated in China? I've only known a few that could manage staying in China longer than a year... |
Good, I hope they are treated like dirt! Some of them have extreme attitudes! What's more some '"ABC's" wouldn't have any hesistation against discriminating against white folk. So no sympathy from me! |
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The Edge
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 455
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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There was a couple of ABC's in my local supermarket the other day.
It would appear that they were in the country for a funeral.
They were constatly moaning and saying that they could never live here in their very thick west coast American accents.
Despite not knowing what they were saying the locals were looking at them like they were scum. |
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scholar
Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 159
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I want to say something about that. I believe that in the U.S., ABC are often treated by whites as being foreign. People assume that they can't speak English and so on. So a lot overcompensate by separating themselves emotionally from their ancestral homeland, taking on a thick California accent, avoiding China natives, etc. So when they get to China, they are predisposed to not like it. Which is fine, because the locals resent them greatly for being American. |
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keeperofpythons
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 152
Location: zhu san jiao
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| scholar wrote: |
| I want to say something about that. I believe that in the U.S., ABC are often treated by whites as being foreign. People assume that they can't speak English and so on. So a lot overcompensate by separating themselves emotionally from their ancestral homeland, taking on a thick California accent, avoiding China natives, etc. So when they get to China, they are predisposed to not like it. Which is fine, because the locals resent them greatly for being American. |
You could not be further from the truth. Of course, the US isn't a perfect racial utopia, but nowhere these days is. At least, where I'm from (Washington D.C. / suburban Maryland bordering Washington D.C.), I can assure you that we often grow up side by side with American born Asians, most of whom are Chinese. At least I did.
At least in my part of the US, there exists a unique phenomenon that has been discussed recently. It seems that, generally speaking, the immigrant experience varies in a rotating fashion. One generation integrates well, and the next one isolates and alienates itself, rinse and repeat.
To me, an American is an American is an American. The only ones who rub me as foreign are the recent immigrants who, first of all, don't speak English (I can forgive that as that has not been uncommon throughout the history of US immigration), but also openly refuse to learn English and demand that you learn to speak theirs (this is largely a Hispanic phenomenon but is slowly extending to other nationalities, not the least of which to the Chinese).
We assume that people who live in America speak English. The word foreigner is seldom used because there is often no real way of knowing unless you ask, which is impolite.
Recent Chinese immigrants don't avoid native Chinese. In fact, it's the exact opposite. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| scholar wrote: |
| I want to say something about that. I believe that in the U.S., ABC are often treated by whites as being foreign. People assume that they can't speak English and so on. |
i can't recall the last time i yelled 'laowai' at an asian-looking fellow. |
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