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IvanaShaanxi
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 100
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: New regulations for obtaining a Z visa |
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Have you heard about that new law that prohibits anyone but citizens of the 6 "big" countries (the USA, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and I think Ireland) from obtaining Z visas?
I'm a non-native and still I have plenty of job offers from all around China. What do you think of it? Is it possible that they haven't heard about the law, or are they simply ignoring it?
Does anybody know more about these new regulations? |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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It's not a new law; The law has been on the books since before I ever came to China. The countries are: The US, the UK, Canada, South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia.
It has always been a law, which enforcement is different in different areas.
Just like the "you need a university degree" law. Just like the "you need several years of experience" law.
To answer your question: they are either ignorant of it (unlikely) or ignoring it. Look, I have had friends from Sweden, Nigeria, Russia, Philippines, Germany and Italy all teaching here. They all had Z visas so take that with a grain of salt. Laws in China are regionally enforced, depending on multiple factors.
Last edited by The Great Wall of Whiner on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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IvanaShaanxi
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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No, no, TGWOW, South Africans are no longer considered to be native speakers. I know that for sure because a friend of mine works in Taiyuan in Shanxi province as a HR manager and they had to send a newly arrived South African teacher home because they couldn't do the visa for her.
I've asked my friend (another FT) who is working in Fujian and he has also heard of it.
The law is about a week old. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| I have never heard of this law being "new" then, no. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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There has always been two lines on the China employment graph.
One is 'vacancies to fill' the other is 'regulations to comply with'.
It is the point at which the lines cross, that issues arise.
I have worked alongside Filipino teachers of English in State unis and colleges.
This is even though those same schools advertised for teachers from the approved source countries.
At the moment there seems to be a crackdown on irregular employment which has been brought about by alleged criminal behaviour by an FT or two, general sensitivity around the change at the top of the CCP, Hong Kong issues plus the ongoing Urumqi and Tibet issues. Most of these are not directly associated with English teaching but rather the authorities projecting a bit of muscle.
My advice to our SA cousins is that 'no' still means 'maybe' but that you should apply to less desirable areas, make as many applications as possible and state at the outset that you are not from one of the approved source countries and emphasise that you would welcome a Skype or phone interview.
Time could be on your side as school with unfilled FT positions could be getting desperate right now as we approach/have reached the holiday.
FAOs want to go on leave too!
I would still counsel against accepting jobs that involve the 'hey turn up on a tourist visa and we'll fix the rest when you get here'. |
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Babala
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| I think it depends on the type of school. I know that training centers have different sets of regulations compared to universities. |
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keeperofpythons
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 152
Location: zhu san jiao
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| IvanaShaanxi wrote: |
| I know that for sure because a friend of mine works in Taiyuan in Shanxi province as a HR manager and they had to send a newly arrived South African teacher home because they couldn't do the visa for her.. |
My only guess is that their employer didn't have enough guanxi to make it happen. The affiliated kindergarten with the University that I am leaving in a few days, in Taiyuan, just converted a Z visa into a residence permit for their new South African teacher. |
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GeminiTiger
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| keeperofpythons wrote: |
| IvanaShaanxi wrote: |
| I know that for sure because a friend of mine works in Taiyuan in Shanxi province as a HR manager and they had to send a newly arrived South African teacher home because they couldn't do the visa for her.. |
My only guess is that their employer didn't have enough guanxi to make it happen. The affiliated kindergarten with the University that I am leaving in a few days, in Taiyuan, just converted a Z visa into a residence permit for their new South African teacher. |
That's exactly how laws in China work though. |
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keeperofpythons
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 152
Location: zhu san jiao
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| GeminiTiger wrote: |
| That's exactly how laws in China work though. |
Precisely.
On that note, I would venture it's fair to say that one third, easily, of the teachers in this city are non-native speakers.
A former colleague of mine was Danish, over 70, and had a masters degree in Agriculture. When I offered to present a replacement for myself out of goodwill, my friend was refused. He's just shy of 30, Polish, and holds a masters in TEFL from a U.S. University with experience teaching TESL there.
This. Is. China. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| IvanaShaanxi wrote: |
No, no, TGWOW, South Africans are no longer considered to be native speakers. I know that for sure because a friend of mine works in Taiyuan in Shanxi province as a HR manager and they had to send a newly arrived South African teacher home because they couldn't do the visa for her.
I've asked my friend (another FT) who is working in Fujian and he has also heard of it.
The law is about a week old. |
If it's a new law, then it MUST be very new. I find it hard to believe that the news of the law would be general knowledge within a week, though. Then again, TIC.
There were white south Africans working at a school in my last city of employment. Though English is one of the dozen or so "official" languages of South Africa, I can see why an English speaker from South Africa might not be considered English speakers. Their English is interspersed with a lot of Afrikaans words and terms that would leave other western native English speakers a bit baffled and Chinese English speakers thoroughly confounded. The few White South Africans I've known were college educated (one of which was a Stateside professor), but eventually, the Afrikaans crept out, but not to a degree that made them unintelligible or even difficult to understand.
I wonder what will happen to friends from the Cameroons. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe they'll switch from ESL teaching to bongo drum classes or giving instruction in mangambeu music. These do reflect the culture of the Cameroons. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
| Maybe they'll switch from ESL teaching to bongo drum classes or giving instruction in mangambeu music. These do reflect the culture of the Cameroons. |
Very crass. |
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twilothunder
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| IvanaShaanxi wrote: |
No, no, TGWOW, South Africans are no longer considered to be native speakers. I know that for sure because a friend of mine works in Taiyuan in Shanxi province as a HR manager and they had to send a newly arrived South African teacher home because they couldn't do the visa for her.
I've asked my friend (another FT) who is working in Fujian and he has also heard of it.
The law is about a week old. |
Heard the same.
South African friends who have been here a long time are increasingly finding it difficult to get new jobs or extend contracts because of the difficulties schools have getting visas for them (ie places WILL take a WHITE South African, but only after they have exhausted other options). |
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twilothunder
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
There has always been two lines on the China employment graph.
One is 'vacancies to fill' the other is 'regulations to comply with'.
It is the point at which the lines cross, that issues arise.
I have worked alongside Filipino teachers of English in State unis and colleges.
This is even though those same schools advertised for teachers from the approved source countries.
At the moment there seems to be a crackdown on irregular employment which has been brought about by alleged criminal behaviour by an FT or two, general sensitivity around the change at the top of the CCP, Hong Kong issues plus the ongoing Urumqi and Tibet issues. Most of these are not directly associated with English teaching but rather the authorities projecting a bit of muscle.
My advice to our SA cousins is that 'no' still means 'maybe' but that you should apply to less desirable areas, make as many applications as possible and state at the outset that you are not from one of the approved source countries and emphasise that you would welcome a Skype or phone interview.
Time could be on your side as school with unfilled FT positions could be getting desperate right now as we approach/have reached the holiday.
FAOs want to go on leave too!
I would still counsel against accepting jobs that involve the 'hey turn up on a tourist visa and we'll fix the rest when you get here'. |
According to same friends, the issue is probably not to do with South Africans' command of English, more likely the amount of Africans who fraudulently obtain SA passports. |
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IvanaShaanxi
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Miles Smiles wrote: |
If it's a new law, then it MUST be very new. I find it hard to believe that the news of the law would be general knowledge within a week, though. Then again, TIC.
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I would expect it to be known to everyone immediately. That's why I am amazed at recruiters and schools who haven't heard about it.
I mean, what's going on? |
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