Job Discussion Forums

[kanjizai]

Does anyone have any ideas about how to help advanced students, who have a expansive vocabulary and solid knowledge of grammar, improve their ability to speak more succinctly?

My student tends to ramble on and digress so much when trying to make a point that his communication becomes unintelligible. I understand that there are some cultural factor that may play into this, but is there anything that can be taught to help him?

Thanks!

[Inflames]

Are you sure this student wants to be helped?

There are no cultural factors at work - some people just won't stop talking. They're aware of this as well.

[steki47]

Rambling is a part of natural speech.

If you want him to build more coherent communication, you can advise him to make shorter sentences. I often recommend this to more advanced students.

[Cool Teacher]

Try modeling (no! Not that kind of modeling! ) two different ways of telling the same story. Make one rambling and teddious and the other short and sharp. Ask him, "whishc is better?" Then practice telling the stories of moveis etc... Explain that this is called summarizing (or paraphrasing) and do some different versions of this. I think the main point is your not making his problem a problem, just playing a kind of exercise.

Star Wars: "It is a story of good and evil set in space. The main characters are Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader."

Or

Star Wars: "This is a story that happens long, long, long, long, long ago in a galaxy far, far, far, far, far, far, from here and in the first scene a really long spaceship flies past the screen and it is in space and there are all these stars and then you see a door open and some people are running through and they are being chased by some robot type peopel in white and there are is this big laser fight and one gets shot and then you see Darth Vader who was actually played by the actor David Prowse who is knwon to English school children as the Green Cross Code man but his voice was overdubbed by James Earl Jones who was uncredited but is a better voice than Prowse because Prowse had a voice with the kind of West Country twang that makes him sound like a farmer rather than some evil lord of space, and anyway where was I? Oh, yeah, so anywaay there on this ship and then suddenly..."

Maybe you can record him to if he accepts and then you can think of ways he can be more concise but it might be that he is speaking liek this because he thinks it is the best way of practiving his English, to use as many words as he can. Does eh do this with Japanese speakers too? If so it might be his character and not much you can do about it.

[Glenski]

Give him a time limit strictly enforced.

Ever hear of Pecha kucha?

[Mr_Monkey]

Tell your student the truth - that his roundabout, unfocussed style will only confuse and/or irritate the people he needs to communicate with.

Advise him to take IELTS. The examiner will give him a low score for cohesion and coherence, which should demonstrate your point to him.

Basically, he's probably not advanced anyway (very few Japanese speakers of English actually are) and conciseness is a feature of communication in English that is both desirable and assessable.

[teacheratlarge]

I think this is a Japanese cultural habit for communicating that is being transferred to English. Generally speaking, Japanese people tend to be vaguer and use extra 'fluff' in there descriptions of events and in answers to questions.

As to what to do about it, having the student practicing to be more concise will help. The modeling suggestion is a good idea, as well as providing contrasts in writing as well that demonstrate the same concept. I think getting your student to recognize what are the core details in the texts is essential.

[Cool Teacher]

[kanjizai]

Thanks everyone for your input. I was wondering if anyone has come across this problem. If so, what kind of activities did you use to help your students contend with this 'problem'?

I like your ideas teacheratlarge.Have you had success with your methods?

[Pitarou]

The first thing I'd want to know is whether your student rambles as much in Japanese. I've met plenty of native speakers who can't maintain a single thread of conversation.

If he isn't like this in Japanese, there might be an underlying weakness that he's masking through is discursiveness.

If he is, well, I guess you'll just have to train him to think for a moment before he speaks. Have him prepare what he's going to say as homework. Then give him exercises where he has to think and jot down notes for 30 seconds before speaking. Once he's got the hang of that, cut the preparation time down from 30 to 5.

[Cool Teacher]

Have a card in your pockert that says "BORING!" When he rambles, casually pull it out of your pocket and show him.

Don't do that really.