Job Discussion Forums

[Tigerstyleone]

Hello Vietnam forum.
I'm a EFL teacher with lots of experience and certification, so I'm thinking about Vietnam too, but I'll avoid asking all the questions that's already been asked. Either I'll go for it or not.

I've read all the threads on the first 2 pages, and I was surprised how many members say that teaching in Vietnam is not their full time job, but something they do for additional income or just to cover the rent and bills.

Is it true? I'm skeptical.

[mark_in_saigon]

It may be true that a larger percentage of posters would make this statement than is what you would hear from the general expat teaching community. The posters here are outliers, they do not closely represent the norms. Look at your post, some 50 looks, but up til now, zero responses. Those 50 looks are more likely representative of the average expat teacher.

I am one of those guys who may state that I can work or not work, but in all my experience, I can think of meeting maybe one other teacher who could actually survive here without his VN income. Yeah, most of us could make it a few weeks and find a way back home if we had to, but almost all of us need some sort of income. Maybe some had resources and just did not mention it. Of course, a few of them build up enough money that they can then survive for a while or longer. However, lifestyles seem to dictate that a lot of our guys spend about as fast as they earn. So yeah, I would say 80 to 90 percent (or more) of the expats teaching here actually need the income. Not sure if I would even factor in the charity workers that we get. They are not really part of the teaching industry it seems to me, and their process and goals are different.

Having said all that, this really is a great place to be if one has passive income streams. The freedom to not have to work in ridiculous situations is very empowering. Another very important aspect of all this is the cost structure here. If one can get a decent price on rent, then he is well on his way to a great lifestyle at a low cost. Overall, money may be worth 3 times what it is in the west, transportation is a great example of that. Some expenses are dramatically lower, anything that involves a high labor component is usually that way. With halfway decent passive incomes, it almost becomes a question of what is the point of working at all.

[kurtz]

I feel the majority of people who are part-time are in that position not through choice, but due to the fact they shouldn't really be here in the first place.

Some people choose to work PT as they have other things going on and don't need the money. Some females do it PT as hubby has some high end job and it keeps them out of the house.

As Mark alluded to, not many people post here which is a shame; there're a lot of lurkers with not much to say (YES YOU!!). My comments are based on my own experiences, it would be nice to hear from more people.

[mark_in_saigon]

[Tigerstyleone]

Yes Mark, you're correct. My second post in the Vietnam thread and I've already been bullied and labeled a sexpat because I was honest in mentioning that Vietnamese girls do attract me to teach in Vietnam although I'm not basing my entire decision to work there on that base alone.

I want to teach motivated students that want to learn and that will respect me in the classroom most of all. Second is salary, and lastly the opportunity for a social life such as dating.

Oh but my honest has me labeled as a sexpat now because I'm honest enough to say I like girls.

[mark_in_saigon]

What is the idiom we have, the crazy aunt in the closet, right? It is the thing that everyone knows is a big part of the equation, but it is best not to mention it. Or if we do, we need to be very careful on how we mention it. A truly honest discussion of this subject cannot last for long, it gets jumped all over, with comments quickly becoming more caustic and insulting. So even though it is just as important (or moreso) than issues like housing, transportation and food, it is one that has to just be hinted at but mostly left alone. Honestly, there are sites that specialize in this discussion that are able to take it on from all angles and do not have the same kind of format where individuals can go directly for the throat. The well known site that specializes on Bangkok has lots of related information, and enough specific to VN (if you dig thru the site a bit) that it should give you all the current info without creating a regional conflict.

[Tigerstyleone]

Thank you. I understand your point clearly.

After reading it I'm even more depressed.

[kurtz]

[kurtz]

[ExpatLuke]

[mark_in_saigon]

With reference to norms, I was talking about posters versus non posters. There are just a few guys who post here regularly, yet looking at the numbers of views on these threads, there are 60 lookers to every one poster, or even more. The 60 who do not post represents the norm, the posters do not. So whatever the posters are saying, they are the ones that are out of the ordinary. This is not meant to say that their education, motivation, skills, goals, attributes, whatever, are not more or less the same as the average, but my guess is that they are different to a fairly large extent. Certainly they feel more comfortable and confident with the written word. Usually they seem to have real opinions on subjects that affect them, and often they are based on pretty decent logic. Likely they tend to stay in VN longer than the average expat teacher, so that is different, and likely it is reflected in their knowledge of life and work here.

The fodder reference is about posts that are essentially useless. I was saying an intelligent reader should be able to distinguish between something of value and something meant to just create animosity, or a post that seems poorly thought out or researched. You are probably thinking of the old cannon fodder collocation, where the fodder is often people. Nope, not using that exact one, fodder is the less desirable food for livestock also, like hay, not the grain, you know? So that is the fodder I meant, not people as fodder.

Get out? We all get out, but no, I do not spend any time drinking beer with my fellow expats or the VN for that matter. Occasionally I am almost forced to be in on some of that for business purposes, as we all are, but you are not gonna catch me with 15 beer cans squashed flat under MY plastic table. So, do not consider me an authority on that aspect of the culture. That is not where I learn "my stuff".

ESL a joke in Asia, not many jobs to build a future? I am not sure I would agree it is a joke, but I would say that mostly it is a mess. This has been discussed plenty, no big secrets on what it is like. Is it getting better or worse? Now that is an interesting discussion. I do think that education generally may be getting worse, and this is based on the VN people I talk with, not the westerners. Just this week there was a big story about how cheating is becoming even more common, not less. In my view, the future is the next week or so. I have very long term thinking when I am in the west, and have done very well because of that, and it allows me to live here (or elsewhere), working, or not working. I am here because I love it here, not everything about it, but it seems like real life here. As real life, it also has the dangers which could cause it to end at any point, and so I do not have the same long term thinking here. I enjoy every day as much as I can, and do not even need those 15 beer cans under my table to prove how great it was.

You guys expecting to build a future out of this are more optimistic than I am. I am not here for the beer, but I do not want out, I just hope it keeps going a while longer, cause 2 years of this is more fun than the next 20 would be for me back there.

[EFLeducator]

[kurtz]

[mark_in_saigon]

hey, don't beat up on MY guys!!

[EFLeducator]