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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: OMG |
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GAWD
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When the honeymoon is over and reality bites, will you still love it? I hope so as your enthusiasm is catching.
Think about watching dogs getting dragged to their deaths and being blowtorched before they are dead so you can eat them- the constant smell of urine in the streets, the fact the locals see the words "ATM" on your forehead.
The girls who say "I love you" but mean "I love your wallet -your ability to get me a visa to leave here".
Students who only attend classes because their parents force them to and you are the clown who entertains them while they sit there passively, learn nothing, but progress because they have paid the fee-but still can't speak any more English than when they entered the course.
Duck eggs with baby ducks in them-eaten just 1 or 2 days before hatching-eating silk worms. |
Well, it is true, and more, and worse, but we do try to avert our eyes, especially on the blowtorching thing. Once they are in the stew, might as well be chicken, parts is parts, ya know?
The silk worms really did not bother me, strangely enough. They just looked like giant grains of rice or something. |
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DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather eat a dog than get stabbed in a mugging because I walked down the wrong street at night. The things we have to complain about...
And every country seems to have horridly inhumane dishes or otherwise disgusting ones you can choose from. Like hotdogs. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: When the honeymoon is over |
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| snollygoster wrote: |
Listen to "inhanoi" on this matter.
When the honeymoon is over and reality bites, will you still love it? I hope so as your enthusiasm is catching.
Think about watching dogs getting dragged to their deaths and being blowtorched before they are dead so you can eat them- the constant smell of urine in the streets, the fact the locals see the words "ATM" on your forehead.
The girls who say "I love you" but mean "I love your wallet -your ability to get me a visa to leave here".
Students who only attend classes because their parents force them to and you are the clown who entertains them while they sit there passively, learn nothing, but progress because they have paid the fee-but still can't speak any more English than when they entered the course.
Duck eggs with baby ducks in them-eaten just 1 or 2 days before hatching-eating silk worms.
Lots more to consider- Its NOT Paradise, but if you can accept the negatives, its not a bad place at all. We all make compromises. Its not Kansas Toto. |
What country are you living in? Because it's certainly not Vietnam... either that, or you've managed to find the very worst this society has to offer and seem to think it's the norm. |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:30 pm Post subject: Rose coloured glasses |
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| I'd like a pair of those rose-coloured glasses. Where do you get them? |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Rose coloured glasses |
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| snollygoster wrote: |
| I'd like a pair of those rose-coloured glasses. Where do you get them? |
I bought a pair for 4 dollars at the local market, but as soon as I put them on, I realized I'd actually paid the right price of 1 dollar. People were smiling at me, not because they saw me as an ATM, but rather due to my welcoming countenance and the fact they really wanted to be of my acquaintance. The police, once guilty of malfeasance, gave me a big wave and tore up their little envelopes soon to be pregnant with cash. Canines were allowed to roam free and I could see the locals' looked at the animals with angelic delight. The women saw me as a man, not a walking wallet and the people drove with such conduct and respect for others. Verbal exchanges were completed at a whisper and no horns were blown by vehicles of any nature. The road surfaces were as smooth as a bowling green and the xe om drivers bowed to me like a gentleman when I declined their generous offers of a lift on their luxury steeds. Restaurant staff were prompt and efficient, and were eager to ingratiate themselves with me out of pure goodwill. Employment was gained on merit and all service industries were competent as a result of a rigorous and fair selection process. Flights abroad were cheap due to an abundance of competing carriers and the visa and work permit system for foreigners were totally transparent.
Unfortunately, the glasses slipped off and then things changed slightly. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: |
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If you're that dissatisfied with where you live, then why live here at all? From your posts, it sounds like there is absolutely nothing about this country you enjoy. While some of the things you mentioned might in fact occur, they are things that happen anywhere in the world, and are not the norm for Vietnam. Especially the thing about locals treating you like an ATM... not only is that extremely offensive to most Vietnamese, it's also simply not true. I guess it's a little telling that these are the only types of people who want to spend time with you. 
I guess it's easier to be jaded and tell everyone who disagrees with you that they're wearing rose colored glasses, instead of addressing the issues in your own personal life... |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Liking Vietnam more than hating it is not equivalent to the wearing of rose- coloured glasses. Not painting every person and place in Vietnam with the same brush is also not rose-colouring reality. Stating that it is possible to have a pretty comfortable life, avoiding a lot of the things we all dislike about Vietnam, is not rose coloured.
You've actually agreed with me on this in the past, Snollygoster. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| Especially the thing about locals treating you like an ATM... not only is that extremely offensive to most Vietnamese, it's also simply not true. |
Although it certainly is not always the case, that sort of thing does happen here, it is annoying and I wouldn't say otherwise. But then that prompts the question, where does it not happen? You can avoid it to a large extent by traveling through, for example, Western Europe but then again you will be charged anywhere from $30 and up for a night's accommodation in a crummy hostel and the staff typically don't give a damn whether you choose to stay there or not.
If being treated like a walking ATM really gets up your snout then avoid spending time in the Third World. Vietnam is nowhere near as bad as some places. Don't go to Tanzania. You get strangers shouting at you: "Hey! Rich man give me money!" I've never experienced that in Vietnam. Or try taking a relaxing stroll down Kuta in Indonesia. The merchants here at their worst don't hold a candle to those guys. Fancy browsing for carpets in Turkey? Good luck. And, for the love of God, whatever you do, don't go to northern India! |
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snollygoster
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: Good place |
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Overall, Vietnam's a good place to be. Nowhere is perfect. I never said Vietnam was perfect, nor did I say its bad.
I said if we can live with the things we don't like, it's a good place to be.
I don't like the maniac drivers in Malaysia, but that's not everything that can be said about Malaysia.
I don't like the weather in London, but that's not all there is to say about London.
I don't like the way Viets treat animals, but that's not all there is to say about Vietnam.
If a place is so bad, no-one is forcing us to stay there-its a matter of choice-weighing up the good against the bad and making a decision about accepting-because we sure as hell are not going to change what we don't like.
Accept-breathe, and live on. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
If you're that dissatisfied with where you live, then why live here at all? From your posts, it sounds like there is absolutely nothing about this country you enjoy. While some of the things you mentioned might in fact occur, they are things that happen anywhere in the world, and are not the norm for Vietnam. Especially the thing about locals treating you like an ATM... not only is that extremely offensive to most Vietnamese, it's also simply not true. I guess it's a little telling that these are the only types of people who want to spend time with you.
I guess it's easier to be jaded and tell everyone who disagrees with you that they're wearing rose colored glasses, instead of addressing the issues in your own personal life... |
Well the jury is out on if I hate it here (which I don't), if you're as sharp as a bowling ball and can't see a bit of a parody if one was the hit you squarely in the face, or if you have zero awareness of what happens in this country. I like your innocence, it's rather endearing in a schoolboy sort of way.
As far as the ATM comment goes, I stand by it. Occasionally I find an honest vendor and make them one of my regular haunts, but you've got to be joking that the majority don't at least try and penny pinch you. This doesn't happen just in Vietnam, but that doesn't make it right.
Despite the negatives, I think Vietnam is a great place to live. The vibrancy, the landscape, the food, lack or rules and general feeling of freedom, the beautiful city of Hanoi makes it a place I'll stick around for a while. However, in terms of ESL, I think most jobs are a bit of a joke. I base that opinion on the two language centers where I've worked, the low requirements for working here, immature students and incompetent local staff. I'm not saying good jobs don't exist here, but I conclude there aren't many of them. How many "teachers" in Vietnam would last 10 seconds in say a classroom in Germany where an in-depth knowledge of grammar is needed?
As far as my personal life goes, well, let's keep to the rules of the forum and not get personal. I'm doing OK, but thanks for the concern.
Anyways Luke, keep up the good work. The peanut gallery is still waiting on your Danang report, or do you just come on Dave's to act morally superior? |
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inhanoi
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Err... I thought expatluke's comments were directed at snollygoster. Kurz, you've been generally very positive about being in Vietnam, and objective as well.
On the other hand, snolly has a long, long history here of denigrating the Vietnamese people and their country, and then when criticized about it he comes back with some conciliatory remarks. Then back again to the cynicism and aggrandized criticisms and half-truths.
Sorry, not intended as a personal attack, just trying to protect the newcomers. |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rose coloured glasses |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| snollygoster wrote: |
| I'd like a pair of those rose-coloured glasses. Where do you get them? |
I bought a pair for 4 dollars at the local market, but as soon as I put them on, I realized I'd actually paid the right price of 1 dollar. People were smiling at me, not because they saw me as an ATM, but rather due to my welcoming countenance and the fact they really wanted to be of my acquaintance. The police, once guilty of malfeasance, gave me a big wave and tore up their little envelopes soon to be pregnant with cash. Canines were allowed to roam free and I could see the locals' looked at the animals with angelic delight. The women saw me as a man, not a walking wallet and the people drove with such conduct and respect for others. Verbal exchanges were completed at a whisper and no horns were blown by vehicles of any nature. The road surfaces were as smooth as a bowling green and the xe om drivers bowed to me like a gentleman when I declined their generous offers of a lift on their luxury steeds. Restaurant staff were prompt and efficient, and were eager to ingratiate themselves with me out of pure goodwill. Employment was gained on merit and all service industries were competent as a result of a rigorous and fair selection process. Flights abroad were cheap due to an abundance of competing carriers and the visa and work permit system for foreigners were totally transparent.
Unfortunately, the glasses slipped off and then things changed slightly. |
Thank you! I laughed so hard that I peed my pants a little |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| inhanoi wrote: |
| Err... I thought expatluke's comments were directed at snollygoster. |
Indeed...
As far as a Danang report goes, I'd be happy to PM anyone who has questions, but do not feel the need to start my own thread. In all honesty, I feel like Danang is one of the best kept secrets of Vietnam, and would rather it stay as it is now than ruin in with over publicity. But feel free to send me a message if you would like my 2 cents. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| inhanoi wrote: |
| Err... I thought expatluke's comments were directed at snollygoster. |
Indeed...
As far as a Danang report goes, I'd be happy to PM anyone who has questions, but do not feel the need to start my own thread. In all honesty, I feel like Danang is one of the best kept secrets of Vietnam, and would rather it stay as it is now than ruin in with over publicity. But feel free to send me a message if you would like my 2 cents. |
I apologize, but it did come after mine  |
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