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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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 Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: How's this for insanity? |
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I found out something from one of my senior classes in college (there are 2, probably the same). They are taking a newspaper reading class. Today they did fairly well, better than I expected (with the exception of a few who had no clue what was going on). We ended up with some extra time and I already had something set up to discuss if we had the time. Unfortunately they don't talk much so we had about twice as much time to struggle through answers.
95% of the class are female and I thought they were studying Chinese. They all told me they are specifically studying Chinese in order to teach it to foreigners. 
How much of a market are they going to get? Seems like a sham degree. They are taking this English newspaper reading class, but they all said they will stay in China.
I have been trying to prepare them for going abroad, thinking they would need English. Time to rethink this and all the time I am putting in preparing
The first and second year students are a completely different story. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: Re: How's this for insanity? |
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| chinatimes wrote: |
| 95% of the class are female and I thought they were studying Chinese. They all told me they are specifically studying Chinese in order to teach it to foreigners. How much of a market are they going to get? Seems like a sham degree. They are taking this English newspaper reading class, but they all said they will stay in China. |
I've taught a writing class to the same major in the past - Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language. Why do you consider it a sham degree? Some of them will undoubtedly find work teaching Chinese to foreigners, others won't and will end up in a completely unrelated field. In these respects their degree is no more a sham than many of those being handed out in Canada or the US these days - Women's Studies? Religious Studies? Film? How employable are some of these people?
| chinatimes wrote: |
| I have been trying to prepare them for going abroad, thinking they would need English. Time to rethink this and all the time I am putting in preparing |
If they find work teaching Chinese to foreigners then the working language between teacher and student will probably be English, so they'll still need it. I doubt the demand to learn Chinese will even come close to the demand for English, but there are still loads of teachers teaching Chinese to foreigners in various places, including at Confucius Institutes found all over the world. One teacher from our school taught Chinese in Indonesia last year, and I think she's still there.
Last edited by 7969 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GeminiTiger
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 999
Location: China, 2005--Present
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, "Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language" where you students won't have good English or good Chinese.  (Because they didn't qualify to be either English majors or Chinese majors)
I taught them oral English a few years back. Wasn't fun. Mostly because of the extreme mixtures of interests and abilities made any one idea not so great. |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Last semester I taught a TCFL class, I remember them having the lowest ability and a clear reluctance to speak compared to other majors. That isn't to say they were a bad class, just it took longer to get through to them.
When I asked them about the career plans, most of them who planned on teaching Chinese abroad mentioned Thailand. Apparently there's a government scheme for this purpose. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Why do you consider it a sham degree? |
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| others won't and will end up in a completely unrelated field |
That's why. I didn't mean "sham" in the literal sense as being a fake, but more useless and an apparent lie from the school that it is somehow a useful degree.
| Quote: |
| Mostly because of the extreme mixtures of interests and abilities made any one idea not so great. |
Yes, the book is the only thing that brings them to together. Rather boring, but only 8 weeks. 5 more to go. |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| bad thread title. Was expecting something that was actually crazy and interesting. |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: How's this for insanity? |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| chinatimes wrote: |
| 95% of the class are female and I thought they were studying Chinese. They all told me they are specifically studying Chinese in order to teach it to foreigners. How much of a market are they going to get? Seems like a sham degree. They are taking this English newspaper reading class, but they all said they will stay in China. |
I've taught a writing class to the same major in the past - Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language. Why do you consider it a sham degree? Some of them will undoubtedly find work teaching Chinese to foreigners, others won't and will end up in a completely unrelated field. In these respects their degree is no more a sham than many of those being handed out in Canada or the US these days - Women's Studies? Religious Studies? Film? How employable are some of these people? |
So, they are preparing to teach Chinese in L2. You are right. It's not a crime. But it gives me something to worry about for my nonexistent Chinese language skills. |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: How's this for insanity? |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| chinatimes wrote: |
| I have been trying to prepare them for going abroad, thinking they would need English. Time to rethink this and all the time I am putting in preparing |
If they find work teaching Chinese to foreigners then the working language between teacher and student will probably be English, so they'll still need it. I doubt the demand to learn Chinese will even come close to the demand for English, but there are still loads of teachers teaching Chinese to foreigners in various places, including at Confucius Institutes found all over the world. One teacher from our school taught Chinese in Indonesia last year, and I think she's still there. |
Darn, you've proved my point. |
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Kysorb
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 253
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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there is probably a good market in africa and India for this...
Not every thing is about us wasps |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| chinatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why do you consider it a sham degree? |
| Quote: |
| others won't and will end up in a completely unrelated field |
That's why. I didn't mean "sham" in the literal sense as being a fake, but more useless and an apparent lie from the school that it is somehow a useful degree. |
No different from liberal arts majors the world over who've been fed the same lies. Unless you're majoring in engineering, medical, or something else technical related your undergrad degree generally leads to unemployment, underemployment, or ESL teaching  |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kysorb wrote: |
there is probably a good market in africa and India for this...
Not every thing is about us wasps |
And Latin America and other places. I was almost offered a job teaching Chinese in South America to meet demand where there were too few native Chinese teachers. My Chinese is NOT very good. They decided against it, but the fact they were considering it shows the demand. I don't look remotely Asian either. Chinese is the new Japanese as far as the language people think they need to learn to speak to the new overlords. This too shall pass, but not in the near future. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Kysorb wrote: |
there is probably a good market in africa and India for this...
Not every thing is about us wasps |
I don't know the full story on visas and passports, but I don't think Chinese can go to foreign countries as easily as we can. I have spoken to Chinese who don't have passports.
I have talked to plenty of Chinese who travel from Qingdao to Chongqing for business.
I even mentioned Hong Kong in class and was quickly summoned with laughter at the idea. |
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chinatimes
Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: How's this for insanity? |
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| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| chinatimes wrote: |
| I have been trying to prepare them for going abroad, thinking they would need English. Time to rethink this and all the time I am putting in preparing |
If they find work teaching Chinese to foreigners then the working language between teacher and student will probably be English, so they'll still need it. I doubt the demand to learn Chinese will even come close to the demand for English, but there are still loads of teachers teaching Chinese to foreigners in various places, including at Confucius Institutes found all over the world. One teacher from our school taught Chinese in Indonesia last year, and I think she's still there. |
Darn, you've proved my point. |
1. We don't study Chinese in our home country to the same degree Chinese do with English. So, this means the need is lower overall.
2. Those who show some genuine interest in Chinese would study enough to make conversation. Pronunciation would be the key hurdle.
3. After getting a suitable understanding and being able to understand Chinese, we would be taught in Chinese. I took a course in Beijing in 2002 for 5 weeks. None of the teachers said a word of English. They were told to teach only in Chinese. I am not claiming I learned by this approach, but I am not an intermediate or advanced speaker.
4. The English spoken by the Chinese teacher would be limited to beginner talk. You haven't heard Chinese talk about more complex ideas in English? It's like yoda meets tonto in some weird matrix dialogue. The people working under the dean just say short sentences and don't listen at all. These are considered the cream of the crop.
5. I have found that those who know 3 languages, are tour guides, or work for a business speaking to foreigners gain the highest levels of English. Those that study it in school but don't actually apply it will never get past book 1 of any book written for Chinese learning.
6. To put this position to rest, I also studied in Shanghai and not only was Chinese used in the same manner in Beijing (no English), but there were plenty of Europeans in the class who don't speak English as a native language. These people performed better than all of us from America, Britain, and Australia. The native English speakers (including myself) would whine about not having explanations in English, whereas the Europeans didn't depend on the English and looked more at the context of the sentences. They learned faster and therefore were able to perform better by not relying on English.
I am not convinced teaching Chinese in English will help the serious Chinese language learner. We come to China to teach English because hopefully there are people who are serious about English and want to interact with native English speakers. It goes the same way for Chinese. If they want to promote Chinese, they need to release the hounds and let them teach in other countries more freely.
Until then, did I mention sham degree? |
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Zimmer
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by Zimmer on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RPMcMurphy
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Zimmer wrote: |
| My Chinese friend recently moved to Thailand to teach Chinese in a school there. Her English is excellent which is fortunate for her as she speaks no Thai but everyone there speaks English. |
Maybe everyone she has to deal with speaks English.
On Chinatimes comment about mainlanders going to HK: Yes, it used to be tough back when HK was rich and the mainland poor. I've had any number of friends, colleagues and students go there, or more correctly "go to shopping". And the myth that English is spoken well and widely in the former colony is just that. |
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