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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 298 Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: topics for adult class discussions |
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I'm teaching a group of seven, all employees at a small company that exports kitchen and bathroom accessories from China to anywhere in the world they can find buyers. The language of discussion with most of their potential buyers is English. Most of the work is done via email but when they get close to consummating a sale the finish is sometimes done via telephone. All seven are in their early to mid-20s, five are women, one of the women is married with one child, the rest are single. Their English skills vary � from about elementary to intermediate. I do 2-hour classes and they want half the time spent working in a textbook and half free talking. The free talking can be difficult due to their language levels, but they insist on it and it actually goes fairly well.
The question I have is about topics for the free talking; they and I are continually struggling to come up with next week's. Examples of what we have used are:
* Should there be age limits for gymnasts in Olympic-level competitions?
* What have you noticed with respect to cultural differences between Chinese and foreigners in China?
* What is your opinion of the healthcare system in China (used newspaper article about doctor who had been attacked and perceived problems in China's healthcare system as starting point) and use of traditional Chinese medicine?
* Students to report on weekend visit to two factories they toured so as to know more about products they sell
* Transportation costs in China � reasonable or too high?
* What do students think of Chinese marrying foreigners, and if a foreigner pursued them would they be interested?
* Which is more important, economic development or environmental protection?
If anyone has some good topic ideas I am interested in hearing! |
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Cool Teacher

Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Hi Mr.English. Cool Teacher here!
I like topic tlak in class but I think sometimes too many teachers assume something meaty and controversila is the best way to go when most of the time people like talking abotu other things for example:
where would you like to visit on holiday,
what food do you like,
what can you cook,
if you could learn to cook something what would it be,
if you could go to university and study something then what would you study?
What I sometimes do is use a graded reader which might have some topics in the story and then try to make some questions about those topics and then make some more that are a bit related to their life etc...
Two things I try to be careful of...
1) Making topics sounds more complicated like "What have you noticed with respect to cultural differences between Chinese and foreigners in China?"
Maybe, "What is cultural differences are there between Chinese people and foreigners?"
BUT...
2) Try not to make it sound like a negative judgment on Chinese people.
I think it sounds like, "Wow! You're athletes are too young. That's child abuse!"
"What's up with your funny healthcare system?" (I can see theres a negative judgment there but I don't know what)
"Why do Chinese girls not want to date me? Are they racist?"
"Why is China polluting the EArth just for its own benefit? Don7t you think those proirities suck?"
So, maybe you could reforumalate toget the answers your looking for such as,
"If you lived abroad what would you miss about China?"
"What is your opinion on the environment?"
"If China and Japan went to war over those pebbles in the sea who would win?"
---I'm just kidding about the last one.  |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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An hour of free talking. Hmm. I used to hold conversation courses along that line in a conversation school. You just can't keep on the same topic for that long. Think about it. In your own language, native speakers drift and drift, and they know the vocabulary.
Perhaps one way to go is to provide them with newspaper articles to read in advance. Or as one of my classes did, each person could come to class with an article (they read the headline and have 1 minute to summarize the news story, whether everyone else knows it or not, and then discussion ensues). The problem is not just vocabulary, but in how the class is held. If they insist on just one person in the group talking, then the others waste valuable time listening. With a small group, they may not perceive this to be a problem, but I'd ask for a secret ballot to be sure. You could also just have them talk in pairs for 5-10 minutes, gauge whether they are really staying on topic and enjoying things (or their partner), and then switch. Some partners will hog the conversation, though.
When you feel everyone has discussed the one person's topic enough, change topics. Perhaps the best thing the teacher can do is monitor, take notes on vocabulary, guide students when they don't know how to say things, etc. End the free talking with a wrap-up on vocabulary and questions about the words from the students.
You could also give students tips on evaluating the news stories for credibility. When a wine company reports that wine is good for the body, should we really believe them? When a politician says X, why should we believe them? Are there really 2 sides (or more) to every story?
As for topics, there are as many as stars in the universe. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 751 Location: Panama City, Panama
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Lots of websites you can use. esldiscussions.com has lots of topics to get you started. I tend to agree that you don't have to always have the topics meaty and heavy but at the same time students do get bored after a while talking about travel, free time, hobbies, shopping etc so a bit of variety is needed |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Cool Teacher wrote: |
I like topic tlak in class but I think sometimes too many teachers assume something meaty and controversila is the best way to go when most of the time people like talking abotu other things ... |
I agree with you.
OP, there are a few topics you posted that I would not use in the classroom. They appear to be loaded questions - if your students were not Chinese, would you ever discuss the age of Olympic gymnasts? No, because we all know about the scandal which it is about, and you may make your Chinese students feel quite upset or defensive over this.
With an elementary/intermediate class, it can also be frustrating to be a student in a controversial discussion because they may not be able to articulate their argument and be left stewing  |
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Cool Teacher

Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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santi84 wrote: |
Cool Teacher wrote: |
I like topic tlak in class but I think sometimes too many teachers assume something meaty and controversila is the best way to go when most of the time people like talking abotu other things ... |
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santi84 wrote: |
OP, there are a few topics you posted that I would not use in the classroom. They appear to be loaded questions - if your students were not Chinese, would you ever discuss the age of Olympic gymnasts? No, because we all know about the scandal which it is about, and you may make your Chinese students feel quite upset or defensive over this.
With an elementary/intermediate class, it can also be frustrating to be a student in a controversial discussion because they may not be able to articulate their argument and be left stewing  |
Yeah, and I think similar to the Glenski is that how you set up the topics is importnat. One idea I might have is put people in groups or pairs and discuss then report to the class with the chance fro others to aks questions. It is my "surface area" theory of language learnig. If you have lots of students you want to increase the surface areas or language communication so lectures from one and others just listening means a low surface area but lots of pairs and goups together means lots of inter-communication and surface area exposure.
Like Glenski I think the teacher is best not injecting opinion in to the discussion but thinking about language use and how to make their opinions.
If things go too wierd (I once had a class where some students were praising Hitler's leadeership skills!! ) Then you could wait till the end and do a short explanation that such things are very insensitive in Western culture and best avoided so tell them not to bring it up in a business meeting.  |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 1339
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Cool Teacher wrote: |
santi84 wrote: |
Cool Teacher wrote: |
I like topic tlak in class but I think sometimes too many teachers assume something meaty and controversila is the best way to go when most of the time people like talking abotu other things ... |
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santi84 wrote: |
OP, there are a few topics you posted that I would not use in the classroom. They appear to be loaded questions - if your students were not Chinese, would you ever discuss the age of Olympic gymnasts? No, because we all know about the scandal which it is about, and you may make your Chinese students feel quite upset or defensive over this.
With an elementary/intermediate class, it can also be frustrating to be a student in a controversial discussion because they may not be able to articulate their argument and be left stewing  |
Yeah, and I think similar to the Glenski is that how you set up the topics is importnat. One idea I might have is put people in groups or pairs and discuss then report to the class with the chance fro others to aks questions. It is my "surface area" theory of language learnig. If you have lots of students you want to increase the surface areas or language communication so lectures from one and others just listening means a low surface area but lots of pairs and goups together means lots of inter-communication and surface area exposure.
Like Glenski I think the teacher is best not injecting opinion in to the discussion but thinking about language use and how to make their opinions.
If things go too wierd (I once had a class where some students were praising Hitler's leadeership skills!! ) Then you could wait till the end and do a short explanation that such things are very insensitive in Western culture and best avoided so tell them not to bring it up in a business meeting.  |
Hitler was a good leader, whatever else he did wrong. To become a leader of a country one needs good leadership skills. You have to have people willing to follow you, and Hitler had plenty of those. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 1317 Location: under da sea
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure most would argue that Hitler was a charismatic politician, but I'm not sure the man had great leadership skills. Part of being a good leader is listening to your many experienced generals who can see the (Soviet) forest for the trees. |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Dear santi84,
Being not insane is also probably an asset to good leadership.
Regards,
John |
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artemisia

Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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(Also not being a psychopath. I recently read an article about a study by Sydney�s Macquarie University on participants� olfactory ability. It suggests psychopaths don't have a good sense of smell due to impaired frontal lobe brain activity: the same area that controls impulses. I gather distinctions are made with people who might have impaired olfactory ability for other reasons).
On topic: Yes, as Cool Teacher says, you can reduce the complexity of the questions or rather the topics.
jonniboy wrote: |
Lots of websites you can use. esldiscussions.com has lots of topics to get you started. I tend to agree that you don't have to always have the topics meaty and heavy but at the same time students do get bored after a while talking about travel, free time, hobbies, shopping etc so a bit of variety is needed |
Just to add a bit to that: you can use comparative questions to liven up everyday topics that tend to be done to death. You have an example already: "Which is more important, economic development or environmental protection?" But I'd make it a more immediately accessible topic(s) for your students, especially as you have some lower levels. From esldiscussion.com:
http://esldiscussions.com/grammar/comparatives.html
You can add to /reduce the number or change some of the questions (some are better than others). Sometimes it works well if students can choose the topic questions they want to discuss (giving reasons for opinions), do so within a time limit, and then (finished or not) change pairs. You could get the new pairs to report on and compare the similarities/differences with their own and the previous partners' views.
Just avoid reported speech by using simpler phrases: "Bob thinks ... because.. but I.. / Both (Neither) of us agree(s) that... They say they want 'free talking', but I'd try to add to their language structures (unless they're really resistant) so they can develop their ability to converse. E.g., useful language such as giving /asking for opinions, how to agree/ disagree, what's polite or rather direct, strong or more tentative ways of expressing yourself, etc. Start by getting them to brainstorm language they already know, then gradually add to that. Plus introduce ways of showing interest/ typical follow up questions: I've been ..... / Have you? (What did you..? / I'd love to hear more about ....[specific point]).
More everyday 'life' topics can be of interest too, such as having children. How do they think life changes if you have a child (compare with the reality of one participant's experience)/ If they were offered a position abroad would they take it / what job conditions would be necessary? |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 298 Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Thanks all for the input. I will be looking at the suggested web pages. A few comments:
Of the topic I mentioned above two were created completely by the students: the one on cultural differences and the one on environment versus development. I have found that topics such as what food you like or where you would like to visit on holiday don't generate a conversation that lasts long enough. On the athletes, the class was about split on age limits; there was no acrimony, zero. The one about marriage and pursuit was excellent, kept going for a long time and generated significantly different ideas from the men versus the women. I mostly listen and work on correcting the English; I don't take strong stands on the issues, though if too many people are arguing one side I will raise questions from the opposite point of view to keep things going.
Agreed, you can't hold to a topic for an hour, and we don't, but I need something with a little meat on it for starters. Newspaper articles would be great, but I have gotten only a little cooperation on the concept of homework from this group, even as easy as reading a short article. Part of the problem is that meaty issues are mostly discussed in articles that have vocabulary beyond what they can deal with. They could also use some work at home and in class on their grammar besides the quick correcting and occasional extremely brief lecture that I slip in, but they only want to speak and are stubborn about what we do.
Yes, difficult sometimes for these students to express their thoughts, but they INSIST on an hour of free conversation, and if things are going well we sometimes go over the hour and short the text time, which happens in the second hour.
Surface area, yes, though for whatever reason this group has resisted being paired up, want to work as a group. At the first meeting I did just this, paired them and then had them report back on their discussions, but they did not like this format. They told me it felt too much like school, and they don't want school.
Also, we did discuss the rocks last week. They ask me what I thought. I said I thought the protests were not productive; they agreed. They said that they believed that long-term residents of Guangzhou were completely against the protests as to them, the long-term residents, it was nothing but a disruption (and it was a significant disruption to traffic in parts of the city). They thought that many of the protesters were from out-of-town, perhaps many were from Nanjing, and that they were mostly "loafers and students". As to more recent arrivals in Guangzhou, there was a heated discussion in Chinese about whether people who have hukou but have not been here so long should be considered long-term residents. They said that they were disappointed that they couldn't get more news about the protests and wanted to know if I knew where some good videos of the action could be found on the internet. One of them, a woman about 22, said that she "hates Japanese". I have heard this from a number of Chinese, though I have heard the opposite as well, including from people as young as 11.
Last edited by Mr. English on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:43 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Why do you think they INSIST on using half their time for unstructured (grammatically, pedagogically) free talking? Do they hate your regular lessons, for example? Are they that high level free-thinking armchair philosophers that they feel they can do it without your intervention? Perhaps if we had some insight into this, it would prove interesting.
If they are just the type who want to blabber on with whatever ability they have, that's their choice, but if I were you I'd insist on them showing (to themselves) that they are getting something out of the process other than expressing words on a topic. Like someone wrote above, if you can show them how something they said is improper for polite society in some way, great. If you can show them how to rephrase something, cool. If they come away with a bigger vocabulary that actually stays with them (only through practicing, of course), all the better.
Talking for talking's sake is nearly a waste of time, IMO.
If they cannot cooperate and bring in articles or read ones you assign before class, then bring something to class that is short enough to read in 5 minutes and do the prep there. It will be more work for you, but even stuff like a Dear Abby column is something to talk about. Anything with a moral. Maybe even politeness hints from Heloise, or relationship quizzes from Vogue magazine would be stimulating. |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 298 Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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They insist on the free talking because they think that this is what they need (they want to be able to talk on the phone to potential customers in English) and they want a format that is not, in their minds, like "school". I have made a couple of suggestions about how to do things differently, but, as I said, they are stubborn about what they want to do, so I have for now at least given up on trying to change the format. Something is getting accomplished, but I certainly agree that they could get more with something more structured. Bringing in short articles is not a bad idea. |
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Cool Teacher

Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Hay! I just had a thought. Why not do this as a presentation format with a discussion afer or a debate?  |
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artemisia

Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 875 Location: the world
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. English wrote: |
Agreed, you can't hold to a topic for an hour, and we don't, but I need something with a little meat on it for starters. Newspaper articles would be great, but I have gotten only a little cooperation on the concept of homework from this group, even as easy as reading a short article.
Surface area, yes, though for whatever reason this group has resisted being paired up, want to work as a group. At the first meeting I did just this, paired them and then had them report back on their discussions, but they did not like this format. They told me it felt too much like school, and they don't want school. |
The reason for your OP is to generate topic ideas. Problem is, I think your class has set up a format that makes that very difficult. They're still expecting you to be the teacher (they're not leading anything, right?) but severely limiting how you go about the job.
It sounds as though they do get fully involved when it�s a topic they�re interested in. The lack of interest in doing any preparation can probably be put down to the fact they work full-time. I didn�t often give a lot of homework to business groups unless they really wanted it. However, I was mostly dealing with very high level speakers of English.
How long have you had this group? Do you know much about what their previous language learning experiences have been like? Have they had native speaker teachers before? As this is a mixed level class, do they more or less speak an equal amount during the speaking part? Has any development been across all the levels?
I wonder if the unwillingness to work in pairs is related to ideas that they won�t learn anything from a classmate � they�ll just pick up mistakes and not develop. I�ve had this issue with Chinese (and other) students before as individuals (not generally a whole class). This way, although you�re not directly involved, it does mean you listen to each person speaking. Maybe that�s what they have in mind, especially with such a small class? If they�re not actively working on ways and techniques to develop speaking, it probably will be fairly limited learning in pairs (though their vocabulary should improve in relation to the topic).
Ultimately, you can�t force them and possibly they�re just too resistant to compromise. My impression (maybe incorrect) is that what they objected to in the very first class was the entire time allocated to speaking being done as pairwork (and reporting back). You�ll know best what you�re dealing with, but I think I�d try and get them to compromise � a bit further down the track � between doing some small group/pairwork, as well as whole group work.
Is there any chance you could make the speaking part the second half of the lesson? That way, I�d try to sneak in some work to build on and develop speaking/ writing structures in the first half. Does the textbook have interesting articles which you can use to pick up on and develop topic ideas in the speaking section? I�d be half tempted to chuck in their resistance as material for a possible debate: what are the best ways to learn a language; what percentage of learning is a teacher/student responsible for etc. If they won�t work in pairs/small groups any debate preparation will have to be jotting down ideas on their own - hmm. |
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