Job Discussion Forums

[cartago]

I've heard numerous complaints about problems with discipline in Turkish schools. The complaints come from a wide variety of people, Turkish and non-Turkish, experienced teachers and not so experienced. I've also experienced it myself with trying to maintain discipline in Turkish schools which is why I adamantly refuse to step foot inside another primary school. It's better in high school but it can still be very difficult sometimes. What do you think the reasons are for this? Or is it not such a big problem?

A lot of people say the private schools are just interested in money and don't want to upset the parents by disciplining them. A big difference I've noticed however is they don't seem to have the problems with violence, drugs and other more adult problems that exist in American and Western schools. I haven't really observed much bullying either.

[vashdown2]

You are right about primary schools in Turkey....
I have only 3 weeks experience in a private primary school, but it is tough so far
I am trying to be tough on the students like the Turkish teachers are
However, I refuse to yell at them
I also have had the Turkish homeroom teachers stay in the class when I ateaching English. This seems to help.
Also, I have tried to minimize the time in between activities to keep them on task as much as possible.

I don't know if there is any difference between private and public schools student behaviour.... Any one else with experience in both?

Welcoming any other ideas to keep the kids in line...

[lucia79]

Spoiled kids! Not all of them, but many are spoiled by self-centered parents. I have seen some bullying and kids really pound into their fellow classmates. It doesn't seem like a lot of playing goes on, but rather hitting each other as hard as they can on break.

[delal]

Vashdown, I tried a private school, but quit.
For what it's worth, the majorıty of the kıds come from private nursery schools where the owners and staff are focused on keeping the kids "happy", or have had chıldminders at home, who are primarily interested in keeping the money coming in. Add to that the commonly held belief here that kids can't take responisbility for their actions ("o bir �o�uk, işte"...)
This means the kids aren't used to discipline Western-style. The most "successful" teachers at the school I was at are those who are great at massaging the egos of both the kids and the parents (because they, too, want that pay cheque).
And, yes, keep the activities short because the kids generally don't have long attention spans
Most private schools here (with the exception places like Robert College), are all businesses at the end of the day and have the reputation of being a dumping ground for the less able kids of the nouveau riche; the intelligent, motivated kids are at public schools
Re working at a public school, I don't think they hire foreigners

[cartago]

There doesn't really seem to be a disciplinary system. At least not that I've observed. If I were to send a child to the office I would have to physically escort him to the office and likely the manager wouldn't even be there. If I needed him to talk to the class I would have to go out and find him. There doesn't seem to be any detention or other consequences.

[sixthchild]

Yes that is pretty much the case,the word "discipline" is just that , noone really knows what it is and how to administer it. The parents are either the cause of it, too soft at home, or seem indifferent to their childs lack of good behaviour, some will of course deny there is a problem and even accuse the teacher of being the reason for any classroom disruption.
The school admin has to travel a thin line between keeping the parents hppy and coming down on the students side if there is a confrontation. Turkish teachers do not follow the idea of having a communicative or student -centered approach as they will know that leads to less control over the kids and of course they know how to belittle and bark at them in their own language.
Basically we are just sport for the kids!

[svenhassel]

Another cause of poor behaviour in Turkish schools and universities could be the low quality of management in the Turkish education system. I would suggest that this systemic problem goes from school management right up to government level... I have no evidence for this but am basing the opinion on the random, idiotic decisions aften made by YOK and individuals running schools.

Put simply there are too many unqualified people running (ruining?) Turkish education. How many language institution managers out there have no formal language teaching qualifications? How many schools now exist only to make a profit?

Until some balance is found between the need to make a profit and the provision of meaningful education. Behaviour problems as discussed will remain because these students will themselves raise children who do not value education in the same way as their own parents do not value it.

sigh......

[delal]

OK, so where is this perfect educational model that many on this board are apparently hankering back to as an example?
Understanding the situation may help deal with the daily challenges, but as sixthchild pointed out, working in a private school (in many,many places worldwide) ESl teachers are sport for the kids (also add babysitting in English/window-dressing to attract parents)
Is anybody out there really on a mission to "improve" the Turkish educational system? Aren't we all here to just make a few dollars while enjoying living abroad?

[cartago]

Even if we wanted to improve the educational system I don't think we would be in a position to do that.

I'm here for the same reasons you are, the problem is I like to at least feel like I'm doing my job and when teaching at the primary school I just couldn't do that. I found it impossible to teach.

With the high school it's also a problem but I get the feeling with most of the classes that it might be workable if I try something different and some of the classes are actually ver good. There are a couple of classes where all the really low level pillocks ended up and no matter how hard I try I can't really get them to participate but most of the classes are somewhere in between and I think it can work. I was told the low level classes I mentioned are trouble with all of their teachers and I should just keep them in class but not worry about them otherwise.

[billy orr]

I don�t think any teacher should underestimate the effect they have on children and students in general. Whatever your aims, you are making a big difference to the learning experiences of the children, even though they don�t seem to recognise that, still less show their appreciation.

If nothing else you are enabling the children to encounter difference at first hand, which is very important and valuable to children, especially those with a very narrow range of experiences in their monolingual, monocultural homes.

At best the different methods you employ will enable the children to see there are different and better ways of doing things, and you will have a very positive effect on their learning and on their future lives.

Whether you teach well or badly the students will remember you for the rest of their lives, you will be talked about and in the end many of the children will come to appreciate what you gave to them. This will happen especially if you have managed to maintain your sang froid, stiff upper lip, good humour and kept calm in the face of adversity.

Happy New Year everyone.

[vashdown2]

Four weeks down the raod...
Things aren't looking up much in the primary school..

Today, I had a 1st grade boy start hitting the keyboard of the computer I was using... then he said, "Teacher! Go back to the Teacher's room!"

I am exhausted every day from these unruly kids...

[delal]

Are you the only foreign teacher at your school? If not, how are the others coping, ie what is their strategy?
BTW, direct confrontation is not part of Turkish culture and the "successful" foreign teachers I observed were great at sucking up to everyone (management, parents, kids).
Things may calm down after the Feb hol-the Turkish semesters are very long for the kids too

[parnett]

I had the extreme displeasure of teaching at a private high school in Bahcesehir for one year. I would never recommend that line of work for anyone. I taught the 5th grade all the way to the 12th. With the exception of the 8th grade, each level was 95% monsters, and 5% kids who wanted to learn. The 12th graders, when asked to be quiet and do some work, would reply that their parents were paying my salary, and they would do as they pleased. One time I arrived at my 9th grade class, and someone had defecated on my chair. Whenever I complained to the administration, I was told that I must learn the Turkish system (whatever that might have been).
The biggest problem was the fact the school mixed almost fluent students with others who couldn't say five words in English. Of course, the latter group of pupils became impossible to discipline.
After a year of nonstop stress, I left for to teach at Turkish universities, and a completely different set of problems.

[sixthchild]

Yep Parnett that can be a tough call. I did 5 years at one of those places, followed by a further stretch at a private uni, no difference really just bigger kids. The most I ever got on my chair was chalkdust, you must have really tee'd someone off to get a brown cable laid on it! Like I said we are sport for them, esp if we take ourselves too seriously!
I think it always goes without saying that we do get a heavy workload slapped on us, that scheudle you had was just dumb, too many levels in one week for one teacher, no one should do more than 3, any more than that and you're not a teacher, just a donkey!

[lucia79]

My Turkish counterpart told me that in general Turks don't like following rules. I see firsthand parents disregarding school rules by the administration; thinking that they are paying lots of money for their kid's education so whatever little Mehmet wants to do he can do. If the school administration is wishy-washy and kowtows to the rich parents then there is a big chance that the students aren't going to take the school and the teachers seriously.