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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
I wouldn't recommend coming here. There's no money. Most of the populace is living on a couple hundred dollars a month. That's the source of the confusion. Everyone wants to imply while carefully avoiding promises.
Because there is no money. You'll get your $15 an hour job. Just go to Cleverlearn or Premier. They are one of a clutch that hire anybody. Perhaps you prefer to spend a thousand or so first while foregoing pay for a couple months. Then ILA or Apollo is the route for you. You'll get $20 an hour less tax which is approximately $15 an hour.
There is no money here. It's just a shell game. A lesson in exploitation. If you really, honestly want to experience VN then come on down by all means, but bring some money and a return ticket. The EFL money train derailed a decade ago. There is no money here.
You'll work 12 hours or more a day, 5 or 7 days a week just to earn about $400 a week. That's probably three employers. And you will make that much only a month or two a year. There are so many holidays and off-days, not to mention the summers. You'll be lucky to average $1000 to $1200 a month over the year. There is no money here. |
Speak for yourself. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
I wouldn't recommend coming here. There's no money. Most of the populace is living on a couple hundred dollars a month. That's the source of the confusion. Everyone wants to imply while carefully avoiding promises.
Because there is no money. You'll get your $15 an hour job. Just go to Cleverlearn or Premier. They are one of a clutch that hire anybody. Perhaps you prefer to spend a thousand or so first while foregoing pay for a couple months. Then ILA or Apollo is the route for you. You'll get $20 an hour less tax which is approximately $15 an hour.
There is no money here. It's just a shell game. A lesson in exploitation. If you really, honestly want to experience VN then come on down by all means, but bring some money and a return ticket. The EFL money train derailed a decade ago. There is no money here.
You'll work 12 hours or more a day, 5 or 7 days a week just to earn about $400 a week. That's probably three employers. And you will make that much only a month or two a year. There are so many holidays and off-days, not to mention the summers. You'll be lucky to average $1000 to $1200 a month over the year. There is no money here. |
Speak for yourself. |
I have to both agree and disgree with the statement by VietCanada:
True, you have to sometimes piece together work from multiple-schools, but if you are persistant and look for something outside the box it can be found and a decent job, with pay hours etc
I have one contract which pay's about $12M VND for working 24 hours per month, if the class cancels, I get paid, if there is a holiday I get paid.
Nope, I won't get rich on that ONE contract so I have others...
Vietnam seems to be what you make of it, just my exp. here so far... |
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aqm22
Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts an input.
| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Hi,
I have to both agree and disgree with the statement by VietCanada:
True, you have to sometimes piece together work from multiple-schools, but if you are persistant and look for something outside the box it can be found and a decent job, with pay hours etc
I have one contract which pay's about $12M VND for working 24 hours per month, if the class cancels, I get paid, if there is a holiday I get paid.
Nope, I won't get rich on that ONE contract so I have others...
Vietnam seems to be what you make of it, just my exp. here so far... |
Thanks for the statement of encouragement, Prof. I actually don't mind the low work hours. I'm also all for the fact that I can piece together hours to make things work. As long as I can make enough to live off of fairly comfortably, I really don't mind. I've lived off merely $800 a month here in SoCal. So, I think I should be fine.
| VietCanada wrote: |
I wouldn't recommend coming here. There's no money. Most of the populace is living on a couple hundred dollars a month. That's the source of the confusion. Everyone wants to imply while carefully avoiding promises.
Because there is no money. You'll get your $15 an hour job. Just go to Cleverlearn or Premier. They are one of a clutch that hire anybody. Perhaps you prefer to spend a thousand or so first while foregoing pay for a couple months. Then ILA or Apollo is the route for you. You'll get $20 an hour less tax which is approximately $15 an hour.
There is no money here. It's just a shell game. A lesson in exploitation. If you really, honestly want to experience VN then come on down by all means, but bring some money and a return ticket. The EFL money train derailed a decade ago. There is no money here.
You'll work 12 hours or more a day, 5 or 7 days a week just to earn about $400 a week. That's probably three employers. And you will make that much only a month or two a year. There are so many holidays and off-days, not to mention the summers. You'll be lucky to average $1000 to $1200 a month over the year. There is no money here.
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VietCanada: Thank you for your warning. I don't expect it to be a cakewalk. Like I said, I don't mind hitting the pavement and working hard to find a job. I did that successfully here in the US when every one of my colleagues were getting laid off. Secondly, I'm also not expecting to get rich teaching ESL. AFAIK, VN standard of living is lower so I'm hoping the lower salary won't be an issue. I also don't mind working multiple locations to give me extra cash.
I'm here mostly for the experience. I don't expect paradise. I don't mind having to work hard or a lot. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think that if you have experience working here and are able to teach in schools that offer test preparation for professionals and VN English teachers then there is money to be made here. If you are a qualified teacher with a couple years experience and a referee or two then you can find work in many countries. But if your are inexperienced working in VN and just looking for EFL work then you will find it difficult to make much money here.
Holidays, school cancellations for exams, the apparent reluctance to actually pay create a drag on income. The costs of anything not cheaply made (including food), hourly rates for contact hours all contribute.
If you are a workhorse willing to work 12+ hours a day in order to earn 6+ hours of actual pay then you'll love it here. IMHO this country is all about exploitation. How many hours can you get from someone for the lowest possible pay is surely a source of humour amongst those driving $100,000 cars while the median pay is about $250 a month for 6 or 7 12+ hour days. This is a reality of emerging economies not a dis of VN or any other country. |
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TimkinMS
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
| If you are a workhorse willing to work 12+ hours a day in order to earn 6+ hours of actual pay then you'll love it here. IMHO this country is all about exploitation. How many hours can you get from someone for the lowest possible pay is surely a source of humour amongst those driving $100,000 cars while the median pay is about $250 a month for 6 or 7 12+ hour days. This is a reality of emerging economies not a dis of VN or any other country. |
I agree with VietCanada on this point.
But I think the questin a new arrival (or anyone) should ask is:
Where is "money" or "earnings" in my list of priorities.
Of course, if you come here (or anywhere) you need to save something. Funds to leave, for emergency, old age, paying off debt, and what have you.
But if earnings/money is a concern in the top 2 items of your list I would not come to Vietnam. Not if you're a newbie.
Furthermore, if money is an issue I would not advise anyone to get into EFL in almost all countries. Certainly not Vietnam.
It is harder to save now, as some poster mentioned.
For some travel and cultural experience? Yes. For money, career, job prospects for now or in the future? Absolutely not. |
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bobpen
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^ +1 |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| TimkinMS wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
| If you are a workhorse willing to work 12+ hours a day in order to earn 6+ hours of actual pay then you'll love it here. IMHO this country is all about exploitation. How many hours can you get from someone for the lowest possible pay is surely a source of humour amongst those driving $100,000 cars while the median pay is about $250 a month for 6 or 7 12+ hour days. This is a reality of emerging economies not a dis of VN or any other country. |
I agree with VietCanada on this point.
But I think the questin a new arrival (or anyone) should ask is:
Where is "money" or "earnings" in my list of priorities.
Of course, if you come here (or anywhere) you need to save something. Funds to leave, for emergency, old age, paying off debt, and what have you.
But if earnings/money is a concern in the top 2 items of your list I would not come to Vietnam. Not if you're a newbie.
Furthermore, if money is an issue I would not advise anyone to get into EFL in almost all countries. Certainly not Vietnam.
It is harder to save now, as some poster mentioned.
For some travel and cultural experience? Yes. For money, career, job prospects for now or in the future? Absolutely not. |
I daresay MOST jobs in Vietnam require a lot of hours to make money. If you've got the goods in terms of resume, experience or just think outside the box a little, good money can be made. I'm happy with what I make right now, but that's not from working at multiple schools doing low skill work. Most people come to Vietnam and stuff around and get themselves into quite a hole.
It should be a concern though for many the lack of savings and future prospects in EFL. It would seem for males at least, getting some kind of employment and a hot chick on the back of your motorbike would be deemed "success" in Vietnam. I'd like to see where these guys are in 20 years time. |
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aqm22
Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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No offense intended, but I get the feeling that I'm being told not to come to VN. Either that or, I'm misunderstanding things.
I've stated many times that I'm not looking to get rich. If I want luxury and security, I would stay where I am right now. I'm working in my little corner office in a great company offering great benefits. I have to freedom and flexibility that most in my field don't have. As an added bonus, my superiors have hearts of gold.
I've been to VN for a few weeks. I love the scenery and atmosphere of life here. I understand that VN is not paradise. I'm going to have to work hard. I don't mind that. It might take me a while to get a job. I'm prepared for that. Well, at least, I think I am. I'm not picky of where in VN I want to be. I can teach in a hut next to a rice paddy for all I care. I've stated before that I don't need a lavish lifestyle. I'm not looking to go to bars/club and eat out at western restaurants every night. All I need is a roof over my head, a nice bed, running water, and electricity. I just want to be able to make enough to live by and experience new environments.
So, unless you're all telling me that I won't get enough work or make enough money to pay bills and eat, I think I'm misunderstanding what you're all trying to tell me. I appreciate every reply. I really do, but I'm sensing a little hostility. |
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bobpen
Joined: 04 Mar 2011
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| No, I didn't sense any hostility, and definitely not directed at you. I just think that some users feel a bit of a sense of responsibility to tell the truth so that new folks don't get so easily burned, which could have been prevented or at least limited with some good basic warnings and information. I don't believe any one is addressing you specifically. They're just putting the information out there so that people have it. Keep in mind that Asia is sort of growing into a more disorganized system, which needs to be reported. |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:39 am Post subject: Social security, what? |
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Dear OP,
I think VietCanada's perspecitive is spot on and can only come from someone who has put his time in over here - no hostility.
My first year saw me actually enjoying getting ripped off, hassled, badgered and generally mucked around. And that was just the schools. As long as there are enough funds in the bank to absorb any major setback, the mind can rest. Take away funding and the enjoyment of all 'the colourful people', begins to disappear pretty fast - you are now fighting for housing, food, medical care, work and all as an outsider and a mark to boot.
Come on over and enjoy your stay, it will be one you will never forget.
Some of us here are really here to help. |
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TimkinMS
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| aqm22 wrote: |
| No offense intended, but I get the feeling that I'm being told not to come to VN. Either that or, I'm misunderstanding things. |
I didn't imply that you not come to VN.
Welcome.
My comments (and I think other comments) were not specifically directed towards you in particular but general comments about people arriving here to do EFL. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Agreed with Vabeckele and Bobpen......
It is not a BAD place.....but the Tier I cities here (Ha Noi, Hai Phong, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang and Can Tho) wear real thin real fast. And if you have fantasies of meditating next to a clear blue stream in the middle of pristine jungles while teaching English to the local children and not draining your bank account back home simply to pay day-to-day expenses while doing that teaching.....I'd suggest what I suggest to most people - that you swing by here for three-week STAY....NOT a three-week TOUR.....but rather a STAY, where you get to whichever major city or nanoscopic village that you'd like to reside in, and reside there for two weeks. Buy food and other things from the market. Pretend to obtain housing (assuming that the school does not make an effort to assist you with that) and then negotiate monthly rent. Pretend to get a motorbike (negotiating the price, of course) and find a mechanic whom you can build a good relationship with.
If, after two weeks of this, you're still enthralled with the life here, then I strongly urge you to make preparations to pack up your things and come on over here!  |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:40 am Post subject: |
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While it's easy to overdo it and sound cynical/negative newbies need to 100% understand that the good time are long gone in Vietnam (and every other EFL/ESL destination too for that matter).
But - for many EFL is the best option to get out of the daily grind of low pay, long hours and spiralling debt that is the working reality in most European countries and has been for a while. Not sure about the US but I'm guessing it's similar.
Here you have the choice. If you work your a$$ off you will make a bit of money. Not massive amounts but you will save money.
If you kick back and take it easy you can still get by but won't save and won't live the high life.
It is a choice that it's nice to have, frankly. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| TimkinMS wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
| If you are a workhorse willing to work 12+ hours a day in order to earn 6+ hours of actual pay then you'll love it here. IMHO this country is all about exploitation. How many hours can you get from someone for the lowest possible pay is surely a source of humour amongst those driving $100,000 cars while the median pay is about $250 a month for 6 or 7 12+ hour days. This is a reality of emerging economies not a dis of VN or any other country. |
I agree with VietCanada on this point.
But I think the questin a new arrival (or anyone) should ask is:
Where is "money" or "earnings" in my list of priorities.
Of course, if you come here (or anywhere) you need to save something. Funds to leave, for emergency, old age, paying off debt, and what have you.
But if earnings/money is a concern in the top 2 items of your list I would not come to Vietnam. Not if you're a newbie.
Furthermore, if money is an issue I would not advise anyone to get into EFL in almost all countries. Certainly not Vietnam.
It is harder to save now, as some poster mentioned.
For some travel and cultural experience? Yes. For money, career, job prospects for now or in the future? Absolutely not. |
Much better than my post. Well said. :cheers: |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:00 am Post subject: CELTA MAN |
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I know a guy out here, in his 40's with a 4 week teaching certificate, who has been here for years. Now, this guy, remember he is in his 40's, is still calling home to mummy for funding quite regularly and then goes and hits the booze pretty heavily with his, 'professional teachers'. This kind of behaviour is okay for people in their 20's who are clean, but I would be a very disappointed parent indeed if it continued to the point where my son became a bum with a Celta.
Be very weary of those that are selling the ESL paradise dream. |
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