Job Discussion Forums

[oiboy]

Have any of you experienced the �please pass all the students syndrome�? I�m currently finishing up my contract at an unnamed public school in Hunan. I recently gave my students a written exam with an oral supplement. (50 multiple choice questions + a mock job interview) I graded it at 70% written and 30% oral. Today a local teacher asked me not to include a written exam mark. Her reasoning was that the Chinese teachers at my school teach grammar. I have concluded that if you cannot speak/write in a foreign language, you should not teach it. Many of my students have very poor grammar and that reflects on their oral English. She also told me I should pass all the students, as they have to pay to rewrite exams. Boo Hoo!. I will only pass students who show an effort in my class. Not the lazy b*stards who come late, sleep in class, show up once a month etc.. I have made a point of including attendance in their final examination grade. That will show them.. The problem is that I have students whose levels are vastly different. I have some who cannot string together 4 word sentences at the same level of students who speak almost fluent English. I think it has to do with the �just pass them as they have to pay to retake exams� policy. Just another reason there are no real teachers here in La La Land.

[lilali]

Yes, there is such a strange policy here too, maybe everywhere in China. It can be a very tough situation for teachers.

I refused to pass some lazy ones who mercifully showed up a few times during the whole term, but they passed them by themselves after I submitted the final scores. So later I had to try to be comparatively fair through the huge gap in scoring.

This prevailing phenomenon reveals the chicken in people in confessing there is something they didn't do well or can't do well. But how far can that go?

[struelle]

I can't really offer any suggestions on this, except to say I know exactly where you're coming from. I offered a round of tests for my optional science reading class, and made 3 different copies for each section I teach. Aside: Computers are so useful for making tests, as I just change a few words or numbers to make a different copy.

So I haven't had any problems with cheating, but what I find disappointing is that most students bombed Part I of my test, which is all about general long-term knowledge and real-life applications of what they read in my class. A major aim was to increase their overall real-life knowledge and passion for it, but, I don't feel this was met well.

All is not lost, in that Parts II and III were aced. Those both involved the second aim of my class, that is reading skills: how to skim and scan science readings and answer questions. This is an extremely useful skill for the NCEE exams they'll take next year. As well, if they do IELTS in future, it will come in handy for the reading component.

So in short, what really motivates Chinese students is that they study to pass tests, not for overall life knowledge. OK now, fine, the FT could argue, I'm writing a test so why don't they care about it? But they also rank tests in order of which gives them the most practical rewards. In this case, a test written by a foreign teacher ranks low on the totem pole.

A top student told me yesterday that the big 4 subjects they need to pass are Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Core English (NOT oral English). Those exams take priority over all others. It's not just oral English that gets the shaft, it's also courses like Politics, Classical Chinese, and History.

Tests like IELTS and TOEFL are top-dog for those going abroad, and for those studying in China, it's the almighty 'gao kao' in Senior 3.

Steve

[Roger]

This problem zooms right into one's conscience when they inform you you have to give your own students an exam.
Please???
Where in the world do teachers test their own students at the end of a syllabus? Yes, in China. Anywhere else???
What's more, no one ever asks you to take your bearings: what level do your students have? No one tells you. What have they covered? No one tells you! What are the criteria by which your students will pass their various exams? Again - that's all very, very subjective!

These students and their teachers enter into an incestuous relationship from day one at primary school, and the sonner we all manage to bring our concern to the attention of the relevant decision makers the better.
It's been ignored for the past 2 or 3 decades!!!

[Tao Burp]

Okay, take my day as a prime example: "Exams are three weeks away." I tell my class. "Now what is the assignment today? Which work are we reading?" I call on a student, he or she stands up, and can't tell me without looking in their textbook. This is a simple question: I have been asking this same question for the last 6 weeks to all my classes. Not one student can answer this very basic question without looking in the textbook.
Exams, let me be direct, are merely an opportunity for the students to cheat--that is all, for the proctors to PRETEND they are proctoring, and for the colleges to PRETEND they are a college. and for us, foreign teachers, to PRETEND we are really teaching. So, they fail our exams. No problem, before they graduate, the students will retake an exam for your course that is set by Chinese teachers and assured to be passed.
The whole idea of learning hasn't even been part of their educational process. Don't waste my time telling me any different. I've been here five years. The exceptions, who show any intelligence and any independent thought and action, are looked on as wierd, strange, and aberrant by the majority.
You want to change it. You got to begin at the very start: a culture of illusion, a culture of delusion.
Want to castigate me as bitter?
Go ahead.
Perhap castigate me as a bad teacher.
or maybe I too am a part of the illusion or a part of my own delusion?
Doesn't matter, I still fail them anyway--especially the ones I catch cheating and that's no illusion nor my delusion.

[kev7161]

I grade a bit differently in my class, but I too have no idea whether or not my final grade will be what I give them or what the school changes it too. First of all, I have probably 50% of my students who are C level or better (and quite a few As, I'm happy to say), so good for them. These are the ones that came to class, participated in discussions, turned in assignments, and tried their best on tests.

The Ds and Fs? Skipped classes, tried to sleep in classes, did not turn in assignments, did not study for tests, copied workbook assignments from the better students (thus failed the exams miserably as the exams were practically identical), would say "sorry, I don't know" when asked difficult questions such as: "What day is it today?"

I just tally up my scores for quizzes, exams (both oral and written), and assignments and give the percentage on these. I don't factor in class participation because the ones participating in class are 99% of the students that are making the better scores on written items. My school assures me that the grade I give them is the grade they take home to mom and dad - - but I'm still skeptical. I will say that a HUGE percentage of my students did better this semester (after getting some pretty rotten scores in the fall), so maybe they did bring home those Ds and Fs and were scolded by the parents . . . . maybe.

[anthyp]

I've noticed some of the other posters talking about this issue before. I assumed it was only a problem in the private schools, though. Next week I am turning in the grades for my Business English classes - one or two kids I will fail, out of 24, because they deserve it and most likely have no chance on the all - oral exam next week (though I wouldn't know for sure, since they are never in class). I was a bit worried about what kinds of grades I should give them, until I asked one of the other (Chinese) English teachers, who told me she failed a few per class, as well. I don't believe she would do so knowing these kids would be allowed to pass anyway, and don't see why it would be any different for me, but honestly, who the hell knows. I'll just turn my grades in and wash my hands of the matter.

[Ricepaddy]

The head teacher of one class approaches me, and asks me, though a student (I'm consistently amused at how my students have better English than their teachers) to pass student "X", who has attended class three times this semester, and who did not sit the exam, no reason given.

My reaction: "No".

She asks me to give him a second chance. I produce the attendance book, and show her all the empty spaces by his name. "That was his second chance...that was his third chance...that was his fourth...that was his fifth..."

It gives me no pleasure to fail him...he's a nice kid. But fer phuxache, there's a limit...

[garbotara]

We have the same policy at my school.It drives me crazy.Some students know absolutely nothing.How can you give them a passing grade? Some are so bright they answer every question correctly and have fun doing it.I also add participation and behavior into the grade.If they have behaved poorly in class and are lazy they are out of luck.

[oiboy]

Yesterday, this same teacher approached my class and asked the same question. “Can you please pass all the students”? I then asked her into my class. I proceeded to walk her to the front. I pointed out one of my more diligent students and one student who is clueless. I asked her, “Why are they at the same level”? “Do you think it’s fair or beneficial to either of them to be in the same class?” I said nonchalantly. She said “Yes, they can learn from one another”. Sure that is true if clueless student actually cared, but please there is a limit. I gave most of my students the written exam that day. Since “Ms. I never get the point” was still unrelenting on the idea to pass all students, I asked her to sit in on my class and take the exam “just for fun”. She did. She is a grammar teacher. Guess what? 88% of my students scored higher than her. Gee whiz! What a surprise.

[ChinaLady]

the real China world of academics is ". . .once you have been admitted to a school or program, you will pass, you will graduate, you will have the degree."
this is all the way from the PhD programs to the technical dental programs. if you "pass" the admit test - that is it - you have the degree in 3, 4, 5 - whatever - years. AND the student knows this, ask them.
try and tell them that it does NOT work this way in the western schools - you can "flunk out" or be asked to leave for poor grades by the dean.
the Chinese students DO NOT believe this.
once in - graduate.
what is terrible - I agree with the previous posters - is that this makes the Chinese degree really "cheap." no matter if it is from some small technical school that calls itself a college or Peking University.
same rules - in by test scores - YEA! here is your degree.
what I do not understand is why the government has all these children hang around the campus? to watch them? to not have them on the streets? kinda like a 4 year holding pattern?
this is China!
smile.

[RVN]

So how much does it cost to do a PhD here? I could do one and then go home and everyone would have to call me doctor, well they wouldn't have to, but you know what I mean. Then I could put it on all my documents and people like bank managers and customs officials would be nicer to me. Well maybe not in the US where they might want to know why I chose to study for a PhD in Communism (whatever the actual subject), and what exactly I was doing with my time in Red China.

[struelle]

[rj]