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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: A sneaky, trick grammar question... |
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How would you analyse the clauses in this sentence?
The common belief that the tomato is a vegetable is false. |
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Qaaolchoura
Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Posts: 539 Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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"The common belief is false." = main clause
"The tomato is a vegetable." = dependent clause
The only tricky part is for Americans. How do we analyze anything without a "z"?
~Q |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you come into my parlour and provide more detail please? In what way is it dependent exactly? |
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Sasha,
The common belief that the tomato is a vegetable is false.
I agree with Qaaolchoura. I'd just add that it's a complex sentence and that the dependent clause (i.e. that the tomato is a vegetable) is an adjective clause.
And since you wrote "clauses," I'd change the terminology: "The common belief is false" = independent clause (i.e. sentence.)
So, the only question left would seem to be this - Is it a fruit or a berry?
Regards,
John
P.S. Tomatoes used to be also called "love apples" (pomme d'amour)
P.P.S. Dependent clause are so called because although they have subjects and verbs (as independent clauses do) they don't have a "complete idea" and therefore cannot "stand alone." they must be part of a complex sentence, dependent upon the independent clause. |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Johnslat
Interesting... But why an adjective clause?
Sasha |
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Xie Lin

Joined: 21 Oct 2011 Posts: 731
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Dear Johnslat
Interesting... But why an adjective clause?
Sasha
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Modifies a noun. (Sorry, John, I'm eager to break into three digits!)
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| But does it? And don't adjectival clauses have relative pronouns or adverbs? |
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Xie Lin

Joined: 21 Oct 2011 Posts: 731
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
But does it? And don't adjectival clauses have relative pronouns or adverbs?
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You don't like "that" ?
Relative pronoun + Subject + Verb = Adjectival Clause
(Or relative pronoun as subject + verb, of course)
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I love 'that'. I'm just not convinced it's a relative pronoun here. If it were, it would be interchangable with 'which', surely?
'The common belief which the tomato is a vegetable is false.'
Hmmmm... |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Is the following helpful? (From the LSGSWE (Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English)).
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9.13 Noun complement clauses
9.13.1 Noun complement clauses v. relative clauses
On the surface, noun complement clauses (NCCs), such as the following, can appear to be identical to relative clauses (RCs) with that:
The fact that it can be done is important. (ACAD)
However, NCCs and RCs are actually very different structures. Their differences are summed up as follows:
Function of clause: RCs identify reference of head noun; NCCs present the content of the head noun or add descriptive information.
Structure: RCs are incomplete and contain a 'gap'; NCCs are complete and therefore have no 'gap'.
Function of that: in RCs, a relative pronoun; in NCCs, a complementizer.
Omission of that: Is possible in RCs with object gaps; impossible in NCCs.
Types of noun modified: In RCs, almost any noun; in NCCs, only a few nouns.
(NCCs are similar to verb and adjective complements clauses, discussed in Chapter 10).
Compare the following two sentences, both with the noun report as head:
Postmodifying RC:
1) Peter reached out for the well-thumbed report that lay behind him on the cupboard top. ( | | |