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A sneaky, trick grammar question...
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: A sneaky, trick grammar question... Reply with quote

How would you analyse the clauses in this sentence?

The common belief that the tomato is a vegetable is false.
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Qaaolchoura



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: 21 miles from the Syrian border

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The common belief is false." = main clause
"The tomato is a vegetable." = dependent clause

The only tricky part is for Americans. How do we analyze anything without a "z"?

~Q
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you come into my parlour and provide more detail please? In what way is it dependent exactly?
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

The common belief that the tomato is a vegetable is false.

I agree with Qaaolchoura. I'd just add that it's a complex sentence and that the dependent clause (i.e. that the tomato is a vegetable) is an adjective clause.
And since you wrote "clauses," I'd change the terminology: "The common belief is false" = independent clause (i.e. sentence.)

So, the only question left would seem to be this - Is it a fruit or a berry? Very Happy

Regards,
John

P.S. Tomatoes used to be also called "love apples" (pomme d'amour)

P.P.S. Dependent clause are so called because although they have subjects and verbs (as independent clauses do) they don't have a "complete idea" and therefore cannot "stand alone." they must be part of a complex sentence, dependent upon the independent clause.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Johnslat

Interesting... But why an adjective clause?


Sasha
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:
Dear Johnslat

Interesting... But why an adjective clause?


Sasha


Modifies a noun. (Sorry, John, I'm eager to break into three digits!) Very Happy

.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But does it? And don't adjectival clauses have relative pronouns or adverbs?
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Xie Lin



Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 731

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sashadroogie wrote:

But does it? And don't adjectival clauses have relative pronouns or adverbs?


You don't like "that" ?

Relative pronoun + Subject + Verb = Adjectival Clause

(Or relative pronoun as subject + verb, of course)

.
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love 'that'. I'm just not convinced it's a relative pronoun here. If it were, it would be interchangable with 'which', surely?

'The common belief which the tomato is a vegetable is false.'

Hmmmm...
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the following helpful? (From the LSGSWE (Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English)).

Quote:
9.13 Noun complement clauses

9.13.1 Noun complement clauses v. relative clauses

On the surface, noun complement clauses (NCCs), such as the following, can appear to be identical to relative clauses (RCs) with that:

The fact that it can be done is important. (ACAD)

However, NCCs and RCs are actually very different structures. Their differences are summed up as follows:

Function of clause: RCs identify reference of head noun; NCCs present the content of the head noun or add descriptive information.
Structure: RCs are incomplete and contain a 'gap'; NCCs are complete and therefore have no 'gap'.
Function of that: in RCs, a relative pronoun; in NCCs, a complementizer.
Omission of that: Is possible in RCs with object gaps; impossible in NCCs.
Types of noun modified: In RCs, almost any noun; in NCCs, only a few nouns.

(NCCs are similar to verb and adjective complements clauses, discussed in Chapter 10).

Compare the following two sentences, both with the noun report as head:

Postmodifying RC:
1) Peter reached out for the well-thumbed report that lay behind him on the cupboard top. (