Job Discussion Forums

that_guy · Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Posts: 3

Hi all,

I was hoping to get some thoughts on Vietnam as long-term teaching destination from those of you that have been working there for several years.

I'm a 29 year old Australian with a BSc, and will soon have an MSc, but no TEFL/CELTA, and no experience teaching ESL (although I have done some tutoring of university classes within my field, around 6 months total). I've been thinking about teaching ESL in Asia for some time now, and have a couple of friends who are career teachers (both in Australia and in Japan/Korea) who think I'd be good at it.

Now, I have to be honest, the reason I'm asking about long-term viability of teaching ESL is because I've been in a long distance relationship with a Vietnamese girl for around 15 months now, and we're starting to consider future options that will allow us to be together. Me relocating there to teach English is one of them (although obviously there are other options we're considering that aren't relevant to the subject matter of this board). From reading some of the postings here I know that some of you are married to locals and have been there for a while, and may even have a family and no intention/option(?) of leaving, which is the situation I might find myself in if I were to head over there.

From what I've read, visas and work permits are an ongoing hassle, though not enough to turn me off the idea by themselves. Also I understand getting married eventually would solve some of the visa issues. But how stable is the teaching environment, and can you really make it work as a career just in Vietnam? My major concerns if I was to head over there would be finding myself out of work for short periods of time, not knowing where the next job contract was going to come from, potentially being caught working without a permit, being deported! Quite a few concerns I guess!

So I was wondering how you guys who've been there for the long-term or plan on being there for the long-term with your partners are making things work, and what your concerns are?

I look forward to hearing and responding to your thought. Apologies if this posting may be a bit off the topic off teaching. I was considering posting on an expat site instead, but I do think some of the replies here will give a bit of an isight into the nature of long-term teaching in Vietnam.

Thanks guys

(I should probably also mention I've spent around 4 months of the 15 months we've been together in Vietnam, really enjoy the place, but understand that the safety-net afforded to some of us from Western countries simply doesn't exist.)

I'm With Stupid · Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Posts: 432

It's certainly possible. Basically, you'd want to get to the stage where you're either qualified and experienced enough to get a job in one of the top-paying schools like the British Council or RMIT, or get a management position in one of the bigger schools. This means that you have to be actively seeking to get more than the bare minimum qualifications required to work in the country (e.g. DELTA). Otherwise you'll probably find that there'll be a cap on the sort of money you're capable of earning (without working ridiculous hours at several schools) and that that cap isn't going to increase at the same rate as the cost of living. It's certainly true that wages have stagnated in the country in recent years, but that's not really relevant as long as your wages are personally increasing, and that is eminently possible to achieve if you put the effort in.

So yeah, personally, I'd get a CELTA first with the aim of getting a DELTA later and I think you can do pretty well long-term out of that. But it's also worth bearing in mind that there are jobs other than English-teaching here, so you can always start by teaching and then look around a bit later on.

kona · Joined: 17 Sep 2011 Posts: 188 Location: USA

What is your MSc in? It might be possible for you to teach a core subject at RMIT or one of the other JV universities in Vietnam, might be something worth looking into.

Tigerstyleone · Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Posts: 181

How did you meet your girlfriend?

Do you have a job now in OZ ?

that_guy · Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Posts: 3

Thanks for the info I'm With Stupid. I wouldn't say this is our number one option at the moment, I'm just trying to work out whether it's a realistic one, or if we're just going to end up broke and trapped. From what you say it sounds like someone who's dedicated to the job could potentially make it work. Plus, I guess there will always be a need for English teachers in Vietnam, so a qualified and experienced teacher should always be able to find work, right?

kona, my MSc, when I finish it, will be in Geospatial Science. Teaching at somewhere like RMIT certainly sounds like it would be a solid option for someone looking to stay in Vietnam long-term, and that's something I'd have to take a closer look after getting some experience behind me if I do end up over there.

Tigerstyleone, I am working in Oz now, in the same field I'm doing my MSc in. I met my girlfriend while I was travelling in Vietnam in 2011, at a bus station while we were waiting for the same bus. A truly wonderful person, hence my exploration of the option of heading over there to teach ESL.

ajc19810 · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 214

Hi that guy, im Australian and 32 and went through the same thing when i first met my wife here. Im currently in Saigon.

After 5 years of marriage, we now spend our time between Australia and Vietnam.

Living in Vietnam long-term is possible, but after a few years you may find yourself missing home. I started to miss home at about the 4 year mark and was getting very bored teaching ESL and often found myself wondering why as a professional was i babysitting kids on Saturday mornings.

I also found myself worrying about my financial future (not wanting to work over 60), health care and education for our son. Saying that when Im in Oz i miss the very social aspect of Vietnam and the wonderful family structure we have here. Our solution to this was to divide our time, while we spend the majority of our time in Oz we come back to Vietnam for long periods and teach English, living off Oz dollars and Vietnamese ESL coffee money.

My advice is to come here do the ESL thing for as long as it feels right and if you were are still with your partner then do a visa for her in Oz. My wifes visa took about 3 weeks, from start to finish.

kona · Joined: 17 Sep 2011 Posts: 188 Location: USA

+1 for ajc19810, important things to consider for sure.

If you got your Masters in Geospatial Science, I would seriously look for work in your field at RMIT or potentially at other joint venture universities unless you think you probably won't want to live in Vietnam for at least a year.

Personally, I think EFL/ESL is a field unto itself, and starting all over again in a new field for you might be challenging, especially because it'll mean working at the bottom rung of the ladder (which there is more than enough info about here on this forum). Unless you really want to get into the field of TESOL, than you might want to consider looking for work that better suits your background. Many of the jobs in Vietnam, from my understanding, can be chaotic, disorganized, frustrating, and low paid, and it can be a true challenge to get things going in a way that you're comfortable with.

Just my two cents, I'm not on the ground there so hopefully other posters will come and weigh in on your situation.

sigmoid · Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 1276

OP:

Have you not done any research into the current economic (and political) climate in Viet Nam Question

ajc19810 · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 214

that-guy, Vietnam is an easy place to penny pinch, but it can also be an easy place to blow a lot of cash without even knowing it. Having been there a few times already you probably have a good idea on prices.

Like many posters say before me, have enough cash to get out and have an escape plan. Being Australian I would say about $2000 is enough.

I can live on very little in Vietnam, especially when not living in Sai Gon. Very little being about $300 month not including house (we own our house). I have teaching buddies who stay in Vietnamese type accommodation (1 room) for as little as $150 month.

The other night I was out in Saigon with a few friends from oz and we had 5 rums, 4 beers and pack of smokes it was about $10 (this was on the side of the road). We then went to Yoko's and spent about $35 for 5 mohitos and 3 mai thais.

I suppose what im trying to say is that you can make Vietnam work even on a crappy salary. And if Vietnam doesnt work and you are still with your girlfriend take her China or Korea.

But always consider your future and how it will be affected by lengthy stays in Vietnam.

that_guy · Joined: 14 Feb 2013 Posts: 3

sigmoid, I certainly have looked into and am fairly well aware of the political and economical climate of Vietnam. As I said before, Vietnam isn't our number one option, largely due to the factors you mention. We're just trying to make the best decision we can about our future, and I'm appreciative of the input I've received here thus far. The fact that she's willing to even consider Vietnam as a long-term option, rather than just heading over to Aus with me (which to me is probably the most sensible option), is somehwat reassuring given the types of disaster stories you occasionally hear about VN girlfriends.

ajc, it's great that you and your partner have worked out a solution to your situation. Would be interested to know what you'll end up doing once your son reaches school age. At this point, I should probably mention that my girlfriend has an 8 year old son from a previous marriage, so that throws a massive spanner into the works. Not an easy situation to be in by any stretch. Obviously which every way we decide to go will be quite difficult.

Tigerstyleone · Joined: 26 Mar 2010 Posts: 181

Ok I'll be devil's advocate here. My vote is to stay in OZ if you have a job in your field of study. Teaching English in Vietnam is fine if you're semi-retired.
You can make enough money to cover expenses without tapping into your retirement fund, but you won't get wealthy teaching English in Vietnam.

Sure you'll be on cloud nine if you come here being with your girl everyday will make you very happy, and everyday will be a new experience, but it can get old and wear off, and then you're in Vietnam and all you want is a good internet connection, and honest bank, clean water, electricity in your school, some regular traffic rules etc.

Is there any way you can sponsor her visa to go to Australia? You live in one of the best countries in the world. Why give that up for a developing corrupt country?

But if your heart is set on it, go for it have an adventure and keep us posted.

kurtz · Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 518 Location: Phaic Tan

That guy, you don't really want to be "that guy" who you see on the street with VN wife and son in toe, etching out a miserable existence in a one room flat; like some impoverished student eating two minute noodles and drinking cask wine.

The reality is, you're leaving a clean, modern country like Australia with good schools, reasonable health care, an established welfare system and a high quality of life and you're going to a developing country, possibly to do a low-paid job that you have no idea how to do. If you're serious about teaching, I'd do a Dip.Ed so you can get a proper job in a proper school, not some crummy EFL "school", but a real International School that pays a wage that allows you a good lifestyle. I'd like to hear of how many Western people who have made a quality life for themselves in Vietnam teaching EFL; being able to support a wife, put their child through a good school, having money for retirement, living in a multi-room apartment or house and with the option of visiting the home country on a whim.

Most of the ultra-positive posters on here are to my knowledge, single. This affords them a reasonable lifestyle; travel, drinks in good bars and restaurants, but throw in a wife and child and things would change a lot. I've had the misfortune of working in some VN primary schools, diabolical is one word to describe them; imagine 50+ kids copying lines from the blackboard; welcome to the VN education system.

I won't judge your relationship, but boy, do I hear some stories in regards to relationships that have turned sour and stories about the parents of the girl requiring donations, hope you've vetted the family.

Unless you have some serious money to bring over or a quality job to go to, I'd seriously reconsider coming over to Vietnam, stay in Australia and bring them over.

Mattingly · Joined: 03 Jul 2008 Posts: 249

I'm With Stupid · Joined: 03 Sep 2010 Posts: 432

ExpatLuke · Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 744

If you're a teacher at an international school you can often get your kids in for a reduced price or just the price of books. I've met a few foreigners here with school aged children. Most either have their children enrolled in the international school they teach at or home school. I've met 2 families who put their kids in the Vietnamese schools.