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TimkinMS
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 86
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Guiza wrote: |
| I've been here for over a year and my life's never been better. Never in my home country have I been able to afford the lifestyle I currently enjoy. |
Below is the lifestyle noted. I'm not criticizing you Guiza, I'm just noting that what is a luxury to some is normal living to others.
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| I'm young though and didn't have a good job back home. |
Lifestyle:
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| My shared house is spacious, clean, tastefully furnished and comfortable. |
I think all houses should have these qualities. Shared? You have roommates. Because you cannot afford to live alone.
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| I rarely use that plug in oven though it is good at heating up bread for a sandwich. |
Plug in? The mini-ovens you buy at Co-op that can heat bread and sandwhiches.
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| I can sit on my sofa with a drink watching English football on a big TV. |
A lot of people in the world do this. .....
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| to combat the depressing UK weather conditions. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Who can't afford to live alone in Vietnam if they want to? Housing here ranges from $200 a month up to $2000. There's a place for everyone. Just because someone shares a large house does not mean they cannot afford to live alone. Where is that rational thinking when you need? 
I know I definitely have enjoyed a much higher standard of living in Vietnam than I did in America. For the first 5 months, I was living alone in a spacious apartment about 100 meters from one of the top 5 rated beaches in the world. I had maids come clean my house and do my laundry every week. They'd even cook for me if I asked. The apartment also had all the amenities I could hope for.
After that I decided to move into a house with some of my friends. Not because of lack of money, but because of a better location, and I was getting a bit lonely living by myself. I still have maids do my cleaning. And food is so cheap here I've not cooked for myself in months.
I regularly enjoy eating at the finest restaurants in town (the cheapest ones too  ), getting massages in Hoi An, going to the beach that is 2 minutes away daily, going out at night, movies whenever something new shows up, day trips to Hue, Cham Islands, Hoi An, Ba Na Hills several times a month, traveling around the rest of SE Asia when school is out (my current goal is to visit every country in SE Asia in the next few years, 3 down so far, with Indonesia trip coming up during Tet), easy transportation with my motorbike, hmm I feel I could keep going.
On top of all that, I'm only working about 20 hours a week. To enjoy this level of comfort in America, I'd have to work more than double the amount I do now.
I just don't understand how some people can't enjoy themselves in this country.
Of course its not all roses. The driving here is my biggest annoyance. I doubt I'll ever get used to that. Being so far away from family is another difficulty. But any "rationally" thinking person can see this place is lovely. |
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Durian Tango
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 65
Location: HCMC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice ExpatLuke. From my years abroad teaching, you represent the majority of teachers out there. We are living and teaching abroad because life is what we make of it, and you know what, life in Asia is good (though I might not want to be in Beijing at the moment!). |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I was much more comfortable in my home country. I bought my own nice furniture and electronics, owned a car, 500 TV channels. My electricity wasn't turned off once or twice a month for no reason I know of. Buses, street cars and subways. Going out for a steak dinner with a baked potato or BBQing it myself. Roast beef dinners. Movie theatres, fast food, convenience stores, shopping for clothes that fit and just about anything else that caught my attention. Pension plans. Skinless boneless chicken bleasts and frozen lasagnas etc.
This is not home. It's like going on vacation for an extended period of time in any undeveloped country with hot weather and cheap beer except you work. If this is what you want then by all means come on down but don't say it's like home or better. That is an absurd, disingenuous thing to say. This is not Kansas.
I love the extended vacation and simple lifestyle. Sometimes I pine for a king cut roast beef with mashed potatoes and veggies with garlic but not enough to actually do anything about it. I read when the power goes out. I cook at home and dl movies and TV shows I want to see. I made something of my stay here that suits me. Just like I did at home. But at home there is more stuff to make a life with. Much, much more. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:05 am Post subject: |
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An inappropriate posting has been deleted.
This is not the site on which to attack other members.
While such conduct may be permitted on some sites, it is not permitted here.
If unable to engage in civil discussion, then please spend your time on another site or the decision will be made for you.
Members observing such behavior are requested to advise the Mod Team by report post or PM as soon as possible. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
I was much more comfortable in my home country. I bought my own nice furniture and electronics, owned a car, 500 TV channels. My electricity wasn't turned off once or twice a month for no reason I know of. Buses, street cars and subways. Going out for a steak dinner with a baked potato or BBQing it myself. Roast beef dinners. Movie theatres, fast food, convenience stores, shopping for clothes that fit and just about anything else that caught my attention. Pension plans. Skinless boneless chicken bleasts and frozen lasagnas etc.
This is not home. It's like going on vacation for an extended period of time in any undeveloped country with hot weather and cheap beer except you work. If this is what you want then by all means come on down but don't say it's like home or better. That is an absurd, disingenuous thing to say. This is not Kansas.
I love the extended vacation and simple lifestyle. Sometimes I pine for a king cut roast beef with mashed potatoes and veggies with garlic but not enough to actually do anything about it. I read when the power goes out. I cook at home and dl movies and TV shows I want to see. I made something of my stay here that suits me. Just like I did at home. But at home there is more stuff to make a life with. Much, much more. |
Everything you listed can be found easily in any of the 5 biggest cities in Vietnam. (Minus the car perhaps, which would be outside the pay range of most teachers. But then again, driving a car here seems much more inconvenient than driving a motorbike.)
Also, I'd like to point out that when your electricity is turned off its not for "no reason." There's always a reason, even if you don't understand what it is. It happens in your home country too.
This isn't home for you, but it is for many of us who have lived here for an extended period of time. If you don't like it here or can't be bothered to acquire the comforts you're used to, I'm at a loss as to why you'd stay. You don't need to try to convince everyone else to hate it too.
I don't think your depiction of life in Vietnam is very realistic. It might be accurate for someone who doesn't try to learn a little bit of the language, learn the culture, learn how the infrastructure works, befriend locals, or is suffering from negative culture shock, but for those that have learned these things we can walk outside and find all the creature comforts you seem to be missing with relative ease. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| VietCanada wrote: |
I was much more comfortable in my home country. I bought my own nice furniture and electronics, owned a car, 500 TV channels. My electricity wasn't turned off once or twice a month for no reason I know of. Buses, street cars and subways. Going out for a steak dinner with a baked potato or BBQing it myself. Roast beef dinners. Movie theatres, fast food, convenience stores, shopping for clothes that fit and just about anything else that caught my attention. Pension plans. Skinless boneless chicken bleasts and frozen lasagnas etc.
This is not home. It's like going on vacation for an extended period of time in any undeveloped country with hot weather and cheap beer except you work. If this is what you want then by all means come on down but don't say it's like home or better. That is an absurd, disingenuous thing to say. This is not Kansas.
I love the extended vacation and simple lifestyle. Sometimes I pine for a king cut roast beef with mashed potatoes and veggies with garlic but not enough to actually do anything about it. I read when the power goes out. I cook at home and dl movies and TV shows I want to see. I made something of my stay here that suits me. Just like I did at home. But at home there is more stuff to make a life with. Much, much more. |
Everything you listed can be found easily in any of the 5 biggest cities in Vietnam. (Minus the car perhaps, which would be outside the pay range of most teachers. But then again, driving a car here seems much more inconvenient than driving a motorbike.)
Also, I'd like to point out that when your electricity is turned off its not for "no reason." There's always a reason, even if you don't understand what it is. It happens in your home country too.
This isn't home for you, but it is for many of us who have lived here for an extended period of time. If you don't like it here or can't be bothered to acquire the comforts you're used to, I'm at a loss as to why you'd stay. You don't need to try to convince everyone else to hate it too.
I don't think your depiction of life in Vietnam is very realistic. It might be accurate for someone who doesn't try to learn a little bit of the language, learn the culture, learn how the infrastructure works, befriend locals, or is suffering from negative culture shock, but for those that have learned these things we can walk outside and find all the creature comforts you seem to be missing with relative ease. |
Yes many of those things can be found. For a price assuming it is the real thing and not some knock off. Buffalo meat burgers are not NA hamburgers. Pasta sauce made with a mayonnaise concoction is not NA pasta sauce. Sitting in a small, narrow, lightly padded, wooden chairs, eating sugared, buttered popcorn is also not my typical movie theatre experience from home. The electricity going off as it has three times in the past 10 days is not what I experienced back home. Knowing why would be nice but in the end it's irrelevant. The power going off is very inconvenient and initially upsetting if one is engaged in working on the PC or even playing a game or watching TV. This does not happen back home.
You can overcome these obstacles but as you've said it is quite outside the pay of a typical EFL'er. It may be worth the cost to buy a generator, spend $50 per or so to probably get an authentic western cuisine main course, buy a water filter to use tap water for something other than bathing, install a device for hot water, buy nice, new furniture that isn't just unpadded wood or cheap pressboard which disintegrates in the humidity, purchase electronic goods that don't fail within weeks, living in a place with a separate bedroom, equipped kitchen and private bath etc.
Learning the language so you really know what your neighbors and others think of you is small consolation.
If you move to a foreign country because you are enamoured with it and wish to make your last stand there then you can be happy. If you like teaching and traveling then you aren't going to spend on furniture, electronics or other creature comforts that you take for granted back home. Like electricity and hot water.
The disagreement isn't about VN or any other country, it's about career goals and motivation. If you want to spend your life here you can and you'll probably make a good life for yourself in the manner you expect according to best wages you can earn. If you're just passing through or haven't made that huge decision then no, absolutely this place and others is not like home. Apples and oranges.
What's unrealistic is suggesting to newbs with difficulties in their own country that coming here is just like home but cheaper. Easy work that's easy to find and you can live like a king. That is utter nonsence just as glossing over the reality of an uncertain supply of hot water, electricity and wages.
BTW if I said that running in front of a speeding car would kill you, that doesn't mean I'm dead. So please don't assume that I am explicitly describing my life here or my feelings about living here. That is just simply an ad hominem attack no matter how it's dressed up. It's a disservice to readers of these boards IMHO. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| VietCanada wrote: |
What's unrealistic is suggesting to newbs with difficulties in their own country that coming here is just like home but cheaper. Easy work that's easy to find and you can live like a king. That is utter nonsence just as glossing over the reality of an uncertain supply of hot water, electricity and wages.
BTW if I said that running in front of a speeding car would kill you, that doesn't mean I'm dead. So please don't assume that I am explicitly describing my life here or my feelings about living here. That is just simply an ad hominem attack no matter how it's dressed up. It's a disservice to readers of these boards IMHO. |
I don't recall reading anyone here ever saying that living here is just "like home only cheaper" and, if it was, to be honest, I wouldn't stay here. People have mentioned on another recent thread that Australia is a prosperous, modern, first world country and this is all true. However, it is also, in my subjective opinion, a 'nanny state' and it seems to be getting worse every year. Others can, of course, disagree but, after having traveled quite extensively, I just find living in Australia to be a fairly banal prospect.
Like I said, whilst I don't recall anyone stating that it is "like home only cheaper", there has certainly been a lot of chatter about prices on this forum. You mentioned the prices for a water filter, furniture and electronics. The electronics, of course, invariably "fall apart within weeks". That's peculiar because I've bought a laptop, a DVD player, a Playstation, mobile phones, exercise equipment and an MP3 player in Vietnam and none of them has once malfunctioned. I've never bought furniture here to be honest, but I do buy bottled water all the time and it has never struck me as a great hardship.
In regards to your claim that the 'creature comforts' are out of reach for most TEFLers here then I don't quite how to respond. As a single person, I certainly find it much easier to be comfortable here than back in Oz.
What I pay for a month's accommodation in Vietnam is just slightly more than what I was paying every week back home for a place that wasn't even as good. Also you can say what you like about the Vietnamese Government, but at least I'm not losing about 40% of my hard-earned money so I can pay some deadbeat over $250 a week to sleep in till noon and watch the Jerry Springer Marathon on Fox 8  .
You also mentioned paying "$50 per or so to probably get an authentic western cuisine main course"; what a complete load of nonsense! There are more decent, very affordable restaurants (Western and otherwise) in Saigon and Hanoi than you shake a stick at. I'm not a 'pasta guy' so I don't want to respond to that, but you mentioned the difficulty of getting a decent hamburger. I have had many, many good burgers here. If anyone fancies a burger in Saigon I suggest you try Mogambo Restaurant on Pasteur Street. Their burgers meals are under $10 and their burgers are as delicious as anywhere else I've tried in the world.
Now, just touching on the issue of electricity. The reliability of electricity here seems to depend a lot on where you live. I've been living in District 7 for well over 8 months now and I haven't lost power once yet. By the way, back when I was living in Australia during the summers, when we often had weeks where it got to over 40 degrees celsius every day, the power used to go out all the time. Like you say it's aggravating, but there is not a lot you can do about it.
I'm not referring to anyone in particular but, if you are very attached to living in a first world country then, by all means, stay in the first world. I and many others are quite happy living here and, speaking for myself and weighing up the pros and cons, if staying here means that one day that I'll have to pay an extra fifty bucks, (or whatever it is), for a couch then I guess I'll just have to take it on the chin  . |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| TimkinMS wrote: |
| Durian Tango wrote: |
VietCanada:
I was under the impression there were a significant number of teachers here making $1800-2000 at the larger language schools like ILA, Apollo and VUS. |
That was in the past. Those days are over.
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That combined with a pretty low cost of living should mean that folks could save 100-500 dollars a month doesn't it? To clarify, this is about living and working in HCMC. |
The cost of living is low IF: you do not drink, eat out at restaurants, or go out for entertainment.
Live in a guesthouse for $275-300 USD per month.
To say this again, and again, and again.....
If you want to experience "culture" whatever that mean in Saigon or Hanoi, then come.
If you want to or need to save money, do NOT come here.
Those days are OVER.
I wish things did not change but they did - back in 2007 and 2008. |
This.
Most of the muppets that come here can barely scrape a consistent $1200/ month together. Let's face it though, they probably shouldn't be here at all.
Next is the mill worker. Possibly has a BA. and a CELTA, on maybe $20 an hour but again, unless the mill provides a steady 90+ hours a month, you're not exactly kicking any financial goals. You don't want to have to rely on hours for an income. AC's and DOS's get maybe $2000-$3000.
Finally, you have the "half decent" schools like RMIT and ACET that pay above average, but in reality, it's a single man's wage.
An average monthly income that enables you to live in a modern multi-room apartment, eat Western food whenever you want to and save $1000 per/month is not bad IMHO. This equates to a wage of about $2500 net, but how many punters can say they earn that in Vietnam without killing themselves with massive hours by working multiple jobs?
Even for the suitably qualified, good jobs are scarce and seem to have a time limit in terms of 1-3 year contracts. My current job's funding ends in a year. Generally speaking, Vietnam isn't the place to build yourself a financial future if you want a life other than living very cheaply and holidaying in SE Asia.
The people who I've known who've managed to save reasonably well ate bun cha everyday, never ventured far on holiday, and wore clothes befitting the worst kind of hobo. Peeps can continue to talk the joint up as a wonderful EFL destination, which has a great lifestyle, where a fantastic apartment on the beach is more than achievable (oh yes, think I'll play a round of golf or ride my bike on all the bike paths and have a run on the grass in the park tomorrow), where electronic consumer goods can be bought, but reality rather than fantasy should prevail. Sure, the place is a lot of fun, but adults should be thinking of their future.
Lastly, even though I enjoy at times the rather lawless state it is here, at least in the West you have a reasonable chance of getting help from the local police department, from experience, can't say you'll have much luck here. "Nanny" states at least try to protect their citizens, when the proverbial shite hits the fan in Vietnam, who are you going to run to for help? Hope you've got a white envelope ready.  |
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vabeckele
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: Spot on |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| TimkinMS wrote: |
| Durian Tango wrote: |
VietCanada:
I was under the impression there were a significant number of teachers here making $1800-2000 at the larger language schools like ILA, Apollo and VUS. |
That was in the past. Those days are over.
| Quote: |
That combined with a pretty low cost of living should mean that folks could save 100-500 dollars a month doesn't it? To clarify, this is about living and working in HCMC. |
The cost of living is low IF: you do not drink, eat out at restaurants, or go out for entertainment.
Live in a guesthouse for $275-300 USD per month.
To say this again, and again, and again.....
If you want to experience "culture" whatever that mean in Saigon or Hanoi, then come.
If you want to or need to save money, do NOT come here.
Those days are OVER.
I wish things did not change but they did - back in 2007 and 2008. |
This.
Most of the muppets that come here can barely scrape a consistent $1200/ month together. Let's face it though, they probably shouldn't be here at all.
Next is the mill worker. Possibly has a BA. and a CELTA, on maybe $20 an hour but again, unless the mill provides a steady 90+ hours a month, you're not exactly kicking any financial goals. You don't want to have to rely on hours for an income. AC's and DOS's get maybe $2000-$3000.
Finally, you have the "half decent" schools like RMIT and ACET that pay above average, but in reality, it's a single man's wage.
An average monthly income that enables you to live in a modern multi-room apartment, eat Western food whenever you want to and save $1000 per/month is not bad IMHO. This equates to a wage of about $2500 net, but how many punters can say they earn that in Vietnam without killing themselves with massive hours by working multiple jobs?
Even for the suitably qualified, good jobs are scarce and seem to have a time limit in terms of 1-3 year contracts. My current job's funding ends in a year. Generally speaking, Vietnam isn't the place to build yourself a financial future if you want a life other than living very cheaply and holidaying in SE Asia.
The people who I've known who've managed to save reasonably well ate bun cha everyday, never ventured far on holiday, and wore clothes befitting the worst kind of hobo. Peeps can continue to talk the joint up as a wonderful EFL destination, which has a great lifestyle, where a fantastic apartment on the beach is more than achievable (oh yes, think I'll play a round of golf or ride my bike on all the bike paths and have a run on the grass in the park tomorrow), where electronic consumer goods can be bought, but reality rather than fantasy should prevail. Sure, the place is a lot of fun, but adults should be thinking of their future.
Lastly, even though I enjoy at times the rather lawless state it is here, at least in the West you have a reasonable chance of getting help from the local police department, from experience, can't say you'll have much luck here. "Nanny" states at least try to protect their citizens, when the proverbial shite hits the fan in Vietnam, who are you going to run to for help? Hope you've got a white envelope ready. |
This is the second post I have thought to be a sticky in less than a week.
I think this is spot on.
When was it that I turned from enjoying being able to get a meal for a dollar or two to relying on eating somewhere for a dollar or two? Food for thought - pun intended. |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| An average monthly income that enables you to live in a modern multi-room apartment, eat Western food whenever you want to and save $1000 per/month is not bad IMHO. This equates to a wage of about $2500 net, but how many punters can say they earn that in Vietnam without killing themselves with massive hours by working multiple jobs? |
There's over 100 punters in HCMC earning $2500 after tax, for a maximum 20 hours in the classroom. It's is the starting salary at RMIT, which is available to someone with a bachelors, a CELTA, and a little older teen / adult class experience.
Jobs at RMIT are not that scarce nor are they exclusive. You just need a decent resume and a decent interview. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
Lastly, even though I enjoy at times the rather lawless state it is here, at least in the West you have a reasonable chance of getting help from the local police department, from experience, can't say you'll have much luck here. "Nanny" states at least try to protect their citizens, when the proverbial shite hits the fan in Vietnam, who are you going to run to for help? Hope you've got a white envelope ready. |
Like I said, it is my subjective personal opinion that Australia is a 'nanny state' and, whilst others may disagree, I stand by it. I'm sure many people like the security that Australia offers, but I'm not one of them. As stated, I just find it banal.
Australia invariably does have well-funded government services (whether you want or use these services or not). You mentioned the local police station and, don't worry, I've got a very healthy degree of respect for all the Australian Emergency Services. I also think that the ABC and SBS (a bit like the BBC) are truly great institutions!
However, despite the odd notable exception, do I think that I was getting anything near approaching 'value for money' from the Australian state for the amount I was being financially gouged? Hell, no! Of course, you could say the same about any country, including Vietnam, but at least the extent of the gouging is not as extreme.
As this discussion has, at least in part, become a conversation about the financial circumstances between home and here, a mention of taxes is entirely appropriate. On another thread, a poster mentioned earning $4,000 per month at RMIT and taking home about $3,500. Try doing that in Australia!
I just used the 'tax calculator' from the Australian tax office and, for a person with no major deductions [people with kids do get pretty good deductions], on that gross income in Oz would be paying around $20,000 a year in income tax! Plus, of course, they would also be hit by G.S.T on just about everything they buy, taxes on 'luxury items', fuel excise, etc., etc., etc.. To take home $3,500 a month in Australia as a single person who has no substantial deductions you would need to be on about $60,000 a year! Let's also not forget the higher costs of accommodation, dining out etc.
| kutz wrote: |
The people who I've known who've managed to save reasonably well ate bun cha everyday, never ventured far on holiday, and wore clothes befitting the worst kind of hobo. Peeps can continue to talk the joint up as a wonderful EFL destination, which has a great lifestyle, where a fantastic apartment on the beach is more than achievable (oh yes, think I'll play a round of golf or ride my bike on all the bike paths and have a run on the grass in the park tomorrow), where electronic consumer goods can be bought, but reality rather than fantasy should prevail. Sure, the place is a lot of fun, but adults should be thinking of their future. |
Vietnam has been one of the very few countries I have lived where I have been able to save money without even trying. On page 2 of this thread, I quoted an old post of mine which laid out my expenses/income and therefore savings potential. On another recent thread, where posters were criticizing the wages, I asked a very simple question: what do you think is a 'fair, living wage' for a TEFLer in this third world country? If you have a figure in mind it would be great to hear from you.
Personally, if savings were my thing, I'd probably go to Saudi Arabia. There is well-paid work to be had and a lot of the jobs there don't require much in regards to qualifications and/or experience. However, the rub for me is that I'd have to live in Saudi Arabia. Some people I'm sure love it, but personally it just doesn't really appeal. If I wanted fun, to be honest, I'd probably live in the Philippines or Thailand. Great diving, lovely people and beautiful forests and beaches. However, the pay and opportunity to save are limited. To me Vietnam is a very good compromise. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| deadlift wrote: |
| Quote: |
| An average monthly income that enables you to live in a modern multi-room apartment, eat Western food whenever you want to and save $1000 per/month is not bad IMHO. This equates to a wage of about $2500 net, but how many punters can say they earn that in Vietnam without killing themselves with massive hours by working multiple jobs? |
There's over 100 punters in HCMC earning $2500 after tax, for a maximum 20 hours in the classroom. It's is the starting salary at RMIT, which is available to someone with a bachelors, a CELTA, and a little older teen / adult class experience.
Jobs at RMIT are not that scarce nor are they exclusive. You just need a decent resume and a decent interview. |
Considering the amount of teachers here, 100 is a drop in the ocean; good old RMIT gets dropped again. How many of those teachers are married and able to support a family? $2500 isn't bad, but it isn't great. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| kurtz wrote: |
Lastly, even though I enjoy at times the rather lawless state it is here, at least in the West you have a reasonable chance of getting help from the local police department, from experience, can't say you'll have much luck here. "Nanny" states at least try to protect their citizens, when the proverbial shite hits the fan in Vietnam, who are you going to run to for help? Hope you've got a white envelope ready. |
Like I said, it is my subjective personal opinion that Australia is a 'nanny state' and, whilst others may disagree, I stand by it. I'm sure many people like the security that Australia offers, but I'm not one of them. As stated, I just find it banal.
Australia invariably does have well-funded government services (whether you want or use these services or not). You mentioned the local police station and, don't worry, I've got a very healthy degree of respect for all the Australian Emergency Services. I also think that the ABC and SBS (a bit like the BBC) are truly great institutions!
However, despite the odd notable exception, do I think that I was getting anything near approaching 'value for money' from the Australian state for the amount I was being financially gouged? Hell, no! Of course, you could say the same about any country, including Vietnam, but at least the extent of the gouging is not as extreme.
As this discussion has, at least in part, become a conversation about the financial circumstances between home and here, a mention of taxes is entirely appropriate. On another thread, a poster mentioned earning $4,000 per month at RMIT and taking home about $3,500. Try doing that in Australia!
I just used the 'tax calculator' from the Australian tax office and, for a person with no major deductions [people with kids do get pretty good deductions], on that gross income in Oz would be paying around $20,000 a year in income tax! Plus, of course, they would also be hit by G.S.T on just about everything they buy, taxes on 'luxury items', fuel excise, etc., etc., etc.. To take home $3,500 a month in Australia as a single person who has no substantial deductions you would need to be on about $60,000 a year! Let's also not forget the higher costs of accommodation, dining out etc.
| kutz wrote: |
The people who I've known who've managed to save reasonably well ate bun cha everyday, never ventured far on holiday, and wore clothes befitting the worst kind of hobo. Peeps can continue to talk the joint up as a wonderful EFL destination, which has a great lifestyle, where a fantastic apartment on the beach is more than achievable (oh yes, think I'll play a round of golf or ride my bike on all the bike paths and have a run on the grass in the park tomorrow), where electronic consumer goods can be bought, but reality rather than fantasy should prevail. Sure, the place is a lot of fun, but adults should be thinking of their future. |
Vietnam has been one of the very few countries I have lived where I have been able to save money without even trying. On page 2 of this thread, I quoted an old post of mine which laid out my expenses/income and therefore savings potential. On another recent thread, where posters were criticizing the wages, I asked a very simple question: what do you think is a 'fair, living wage' for a TEFLer in this third world country? If you have a figure in mind it would be great to hear from you.
Personally, if savings were my thing, I'd probably go to Saudi Arabia. There is well-paid work to be had and a lot of the jobs there don't require much in regards to qualifications and/or experience. However, the rub for me is that I'd have to live in Saudi Arabia. Some people I'm sure love it, but personally it just doesn't really appeal. If I wanted fun, to be honest, I'd probably live in the Philippines or Thailand. Great diving, lovely people and beautiful forests and beaches. However, the pay and opportunity to save are limited. To me Vietnam is a very good compromise. |
I guess by "nanny state" you mean the government tries to control lives too much. It's your choice to live in Vietnam which isn't a nanny state, but have fun if you need police assistance for anything. Perhaps driving on the roads wouldn't be such a dangerous experience if Vietnam was more of a "nanny state" or that foreigners wouldn't get ripped off for housing if there were rules to follow, or any of the other wild west behavior the locals like to indulge in.
Heavy taxation occurs in many Western countries. The thing is though, your taxes fund good schools, good or decent hospital care and other social services. Where do your taxes go here? So Mr Tuan can buy a new Lexus? Furthermore, employers pay you a pension fund which can add up to a lot of money. Is anyone getting pension money here? As far as I know, you get your salary, possibly an end of contract bonus and that's it. Make sure you spend your salary wisely. Let's not forget that foreign goods in Vietnam are massively taxed. Can anyone afford a car here? You'll be paying double what it should be worth due to tax. Inflation is bad too, why do things go up 25% when they increase prices? Seems like they're trying to match Western prices as quickly as they can, but I don't see wages going up much.
You seem like a decent chap Sarge, but may I ask what your goals are here? You mentioned that you can save without trying, but how much can you save? If you want to live in a lawless society, that's cool, but I fail to see how anyone can talk Vietnam up as a financial destination. It's a good place for those who want to live in a sunny SE Asian country with beautiful scenery, but if you want a future in terms of financial stability, have fun trying.
If you look at how much the locals' get paid, even those with a Masters, we are very well paid. However, to come to Vietnam for financial reasons is beyond disbelief. I know I know, RMIT pays blah blah blah but even still, you'll be hard pressed having a Western standard living on that wage if you want to save for your future. EFL is on the whole, a low-paid profession. Vietnam offers savings potential, but in terms of what an educated person could earn in the West, it's not much, even with relatively low taxation.
Let's try and agree that $2500 is not the norm for standard hours of work and that it's not attainable for the vast amount of people working here, even those with the proper quals and experience. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:34 am Post subject: |
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I'd have to go along with the consensus here......basically, yeah, Viet Nam is great for a gap-year adventure........but long-term financial goals? Even a somewhat comfortable lifestyle with some money able to be saved at the end of every month.....????
Not likely......
.....is it just me, or is this thread becoming a giant advert for RMIT? |
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