Job Discussion Forums

[BrotherJimma]

I post this as a warning to all teachers who might consider signing a contract with American Eagle in Nanjing. It is a Taiwanese language school that established a branch office in China several years ago, and the salary they offer to a foreign EFL instructor is quite competitive. However, the contract differs from the Taiwanese version in several rather dubious ways. AE Nanjing offers only two vacation days in the first year, which is far below average for a language school in China. Furthermore, the contract stipulates that the teacher must work on his/her days off in order to "make up" for time off on Chinese national holidays. This struck me as neither fair nor legal, and I inquired about this multiple times in my negotiations. The manager who hires foreign faculty, Ms. Emily Chen, repeatedly avoided my questions regarding this matter, along with other routine questions. By this I was left to infer that the teacher would receive virtually no time off for the entire year contract. As a career EFL instructor with a Masters in education, a TESOL certificate, and six years of experience in three countries, I knew better than to fall for such tricks. I post this as a warning for all teachers who might consider AE Nanjing, which appears on the surface to be one of the quality private language schools in China, but is actually one of the unfortunate slave labor language factories which are apparently evermore frequently encountered in China.

[Lobster]

Well, only 2 paid vacation days per year isn't something I'd be too happy with, even though we get quite a few stat holidays.

It's common practice in China to have people work on their off days in order to get a longer consecutive stat holiday. So if for example there are 3 stat holidays, Tues, Weds, and Thurs, it's common for people to work on Sat and Sun (7 days straight) and then get the Mon and Fri off along with the other weekend. You aren't really losing a holiday or working extra days, but you are working OT. FAOs are often not good at explaining this to FTs.

So, one issue is a contract item you agreed to, and the other appears to be a misunderstanding of a common practice here. If the pay, benefits and school are ok in other respects, I wouldn't kick up too much of a fuss. Perhaps you are expecting to be taken advantage of, and this is leading you to assume you are.

RED

[choudoufu]

[hells_kitchen]

Actually, if you read the labor law, which is available in both English and Chinese, you will find that the whole idea of working weekends before or after a holiday, etc. to make up for the time lost for the holiday is stipulated as law; it is the legal obligation to make-up those days regardless if you like it or not. That doesn't mean employers can't give you the usual time off without making it up on other days, but the fact is, it is a requirement by law. Don't go knockin' an employer when they are following the law and you don't like it. You never worked for them and already giving them hell. It sounds like there is something more going on here and you're going out of your way to give them a negative rating. That's my hell'of'an'opinion.

[Brian Hugh]

Taiwan bosses work hard and they expect you to do the same. In Taiwan the pay is good, but working for mainland wages ain't worth it. Taiwanese honor their contracts though.

[GeminiTiger]

American Eagle in China? That's a common clothing store in China.
I'm fairly certain Nanjing has one too. haha

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

[BrotherJimma]

Thanks for the feedback-Lobster was very helpful in particular. If I had understood this practice as you describe it, I would not have been overly concerned with this clause in the contract. Ms. Cheng could have answered my questions with this reasonable information, but she repeatedly avoided giving me any answer whatsoever. I also asked to see the academic calendar to determine when would be the best time for my family to visit, and inquired about the number of unpaid extracurricular activities referred to in the contract. I received no answer aside from, "please return the signed contract, or we will be forced to make the offer to other candidates."

Like most career EFL instructors, I have become extremely cautious in negotiating contracts after an unfortunate situation where a school treats it's foreign faculty with less than the dignity and respect that is deserved. But it was primarily the FAO's reluctance to address my concerns in a professional manner that lead me, as Lobster puts it quite aptly, to assume I was going to be taken advantage of. To the foreigner who is unfamiliar with this highly idiosyncratic Chinese practice, the clause in the contract can only appear as if the school is trying to force you to work on your days off to negate any state-mandated holiday time.

Choudoufu asks how long I have worked in China, but I thought it was readily apparent from my post that I have never worked in China, and I seek to understand from my peers what the common practices are. My reference to "slave labor language factories" was perhaps a bit much, but that is a perception that i have garnered over several years of watching the posts on this and other forums on China, not on personal experience there.

I hope that hells_kitchen can see now that I was unaware of this Chinese law and school practice regarding vacation time, and that I am not "going out of my way to give them a negative rating." AE Nanjing caused me considerable inconvenience and setbacks in my summer job hunt by failing to make reasonable explanations of the contract in a timely manner. In the future I will consult the forum immediately when any such issue arises. Thanks again!

[sPinkomania]

My name is Ben Spink-McCarthy and I was the Program Manager of the school when 'BrotherJimma' applied for a teaching position last year. I'm from New Zealand and I've been in China for about 5 years now - I'm still in Nanjing presently.

Firstly, just to hit this point home for everyone. BrotherJimma has never worked in China before, has never worked for American Eagle before, nor has he ever spoken to myself. As far as I know he hasn't spoken to any existing or previous teachers at American Eagle in Nanjing either. As you can imagine, I am quite surprised at the amount of hyperbole used against our little 'slave labor language factory' considering that he has never worked here!

Secondly, there was never any horrendous delays in e-mail responses, it was a few days at most. I know this because I actually helped Emily write some of these e-mails to him. I think hells_kitchen is quite right in that he is going out of his way to write a terrible review at our little factory. I can say quite honestly that the sentence: "repeatedly avoided my questions regarding this matter, along with other routine questions" is incorrect. Why would we avoid answering routine questions to potential teachers at our school?

I make a point of making sure both parties are as informed as they possibly can be (nothing can truly prepare you for China however), and that the good AND the bad of China is explained to people that arrive. This includes how the pollution is pretty bad, that rules of Western courtesy are often broken in public and of course 'make-up days' (which a quick google search should have explained, and was explained via e-mail through Emily). I am actually sorry to hear you had a bad experience with Eagle BrotherJimma, despite your post rubbing me the wrong way. I don't enjoy anyone leaving the school with a bad experience. However, I can truthfully say our process and the information given to potential teachers has been roughly the same since we started off in Nanjing, and has stayed the same since you applied. In that time we haven't run into problems with this process (except this) and we've employed about 20-plus teachers in the last few years.

[Merging Traffic]

Hah! Loving this.
I'm also a western employee of Eagle (in Guangzhou).
A co-worker tipped me off to this little chat. Just thought I'd chime in. Ben still works for the company, he's up in Shanghai now in research and development, and I've been with the company for about 5 months.

As a long-term teacher (9 years asian esl), I can say that while Eagle is peculiar now and then, they are honestly on the up-swing for how to think of a company around here.

I'm amused at how not-ready the OP was, from his inability to do simple research about common practices to his use of such bold statements about a company he knew so little about ~ compared to Ben's standard (~ I've enjoyed his company both in his training sessions and socially ~ plain-spoken, direct and even-handed guy) "here's my name, here are my thoughts, good luck" kind of way.

American Eagle isn't perfect, (ever meet perfection?) but they're far from some of the silliness mentioned above.

I work with good people.

Be well out there.

[JamesD]

Lobster's got it. Those 'make-up' days you work are not to make up for the holiday, they make up for the extra days off given.

Ex.: National Day is a 5 day holiday but everyone gets 7 days off. (Yes, Saturday/Sunday are in there. Just go with it.) The two 'make-up' days are scheduling changes so you get 7 days in a row rather than the stipulated 5.
They could get rid of the 2 make-up days but then you would only get 5 days off which may or may not run over a weekend.
Spring Festival is the same - 5 day holiday...7 days off...make up 2.

If a school tells you there are 2 make-up days from a '7' day holiday, ok. That's the custom.
If they say you have to make up 5 days of classes then you have a problem as those 5 the days are legal holidays not meant to be simply rescheduled, only the 2 additional days fall into that category.

[Markness]

Yes, that magnificant "custom" of make-up days that has existed for so long... .. a whole 10 years or so.

Don't hate on the OP, I feel his pain. Can't help that there are laws being passed now that actually worsen the quality of life in a place with already shitty care of its people. My missus used to have nice long holidays when she was younger, she tells me of those golden days where such a thing did not exist. There were more holidays too....

Now its all profit, profit, profit! "China has the most holidays in the world!", they tell me. I don't think so, especially if you work as a teacher.

As for training schools, they really are sweatshops. If you are fine with being a monkey then fine by me. But your purpose is to "sell, sell, sell!", quality of education is way at the bottom of the list of priorities for them. Having training is a joke, as it is generally ran by people who are hacks themselves, and it turns out to be a big waste of time just so that the bosses of the company feel like you are earning your wage. Not to mention the BS you have to deal with on a regular basis with 1) students 2) parents 3) Chinese staff 4) your boss 5) last minute everything 6) "dance monkey, dance!"

Again, I know this is an old post, but someone brought it back to life. I don't hate on this specific training school, but I hate their (training schools in general)'s practice. Marketing activities.. my god. "Dance monkey, dance!", is what it should be renamed to.

[JamesD]

Yes, 'custom'. Not 'tradition'.

[LarssonCrew]

The question I guess is not necesserily the 1 or 2 days you make up for in National Day or May holiday, but about Spring Festival and Summer holidays.

If you work in a public school or a university you will get a paid month at least in the Spring Festival. I worked at a uni that had Jan 1st until March 5th as a holiday and then the boss would often stop classes before Xmas day for a break for us. So we effectively had 23 1/2 months off.

Only giving you two days off is rough, I've seen some language mills at least giveyou 10 days paid vacation, but 2 days? What can you do? Visit Beijing for 2 nights?

And are the Spring Festival and Summer holidays even existant? BEcause the little emperors will want to start having extra classes, so whilst others are swanning off, you'll be working like a dog doing extra classes.

How long is the summer and winter vacations for this company?

[mike w]