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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Your "partner" can only come if you are married to her. And I can anticipate another question fom a different poster - So-called "Equal marriage" is nor recognised in KSA. The Saudis are so old-fashioned that they still consider marriage to be a formal relationship between a man and a woman.
Last edited by scot47 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dear scot47,
Oh, you mean Saudis are Republicans 
Regards,
John |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Here's one Saudi woman's take on punishment for unmarried couples...
Saudiwoman's Weblog
The punishments that are most newsworthy when it comes to Saudi Arabia, are the ones given to people guilty of khilwa (unrelated man and woman alone together) and extramarital sex. A punishment for khilwa is common and we�ve all come across muttawas trolling coffee shops and restaurants searching for pairs who seem too happy to be related. But what happens after they are caught?
http://saudiwoman.me/2009/08/25/punishment-in-saudi-arabia/ |
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mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Just a few general questions |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
| mashkif wrote: |
| PurpleFinch wrote: |
| 4. Should I say I have a religion when I don't? God is goodness in my view. |
No, you should (need) not. I put "atheist" on my visa application (which got changed into "Christian" on my iqama and it was all I could do to stop myself from asking it be changed) and whenever anyone asked me -- and students DID ask me, multiple times -- I said the same. No-one got offended (and I wouldn't have given a !@#$ if they had) but they did look at me as if I was completely out of my mind for not believing in the existence of a god.
I vehemently disagree with the advice to deny your identity and walk on eggshells. Making them realize that not everyone in the world thinks or acts or believes the same, or conforms to their stereotypes, won't kill them. It might even open their minds a tiny bit.
Basically, so long as you don't say anything negative about Islam or Mohammed, you're gold. Sometimes it's difficult and I had to really bite my tongue on many occasions, but I didn't relish the prospect of some bearded Neanderthal slicing off my head...  |
Well you are in KSA, and definitely in the minority, so to make life easier on yourself, it would be wise to just remain quiet on the topic of religion...btw...if you are atheist what difference does it make what anyone says or thinks...or what label people may attach onto you... |
Gee, could it be because I don't like someone typecasting or pigeonholing me? What gives some Saudi embassy penpusher the right to change who I am, just because his puny mind cannot comprehend that it's possible to be a human being and NOT have a religion or believe in the existence of a supernatural force?!
| cmp45 wrote: |
| enlightened /open minded/ educated individuals (a rarity indeed)should not feel the need to impose their ideologies on anyone nor be offended by what others may believe or say on the matter. |
I see. So, truthfully filling out a box asking about one's demographic constitutes "impos[ing my] ideologies" on someone!
| cmp45 wrote: |
| However, as you say, no harm in stating you are an atheist, but like you also say people will view you as a weirdo or may try to save your soul...may as well just say you are christian and avoid the potential hassles of venturing down the road of having to explain yourself because (even if you think they were not offended) you have indirectly offended them by denying the existance of their God! |
Well, how about, so as to be uber-politically correct, I convert (sorry, REvert, let's not offend anyone!) to Islam altogether?? And not just any old Islam, but Salafism!!
My not believing in their gods is offensive to them, but their believing in their gods is either not supposed to be offensive to me or I should suck it up.
How utterly ridiculous.
| cmp45 wrote: |
| So how is your stance on religion any different than thiers...both come off as rather closed minded to me...To each his/ her own... at least you are smart enough not to mock their religion; that would be very unwise! I agree with scott, as well... |
Which is really the only thing you should have stated, because this conversation has gone very off-topic. I'm all for focusing on teaching English. As for one's religious beliefs, IF/WHEN asked, there are two options: either say what you think and believe, or say that such things are a private matter and should not be asked in the same way they take a dim view of people asking about their sisters or mothers. Period.
But lying about oneself and one's innermost beliefs in order to pander to someone's stereotypes is just plain idiotic. |
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mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| sheikh radlinrol wrote: |
| The OP would be wise to ignore Mashkif�s advice and simply tell his Saudi students he�s a Christian. Claiming to be an atheist could come back to haunt him if he has a disagreement with one or more students. DON�T discuss religion with your Saudi students. |
Um, aren't the two kinda contradictory?
Wouldn't a better piece of advice be to tell the inquiring student that one's religion is a private matter and that it's considered rude, as it indeed is, to ask a relative stranger about it? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Are you obsessed with "enter" key? Is it really necessary to have dozens of empty lines between your every comment. I hate the constant scrolling required to read your messages. It is a very rude habit that is very intrusive and unnecessary.
VS |
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sheikh radlinrol
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1222
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mashkif wrote: |
| sheikh radlinrol wrote: |
| The OP would be wise to ignore Mashkif�s advice and simply tell his Saudi students he�s a Christian. Claiming to be an atheist could come back to haunt him if he has a disagreement with one or more students. DON�T discuss religion with your Saudi students. |
I don�t see anything contradictory about it. If a student asked me if I was a Christian I answered in the affirmative since I thought a refusal to answer might lead that student to draw his own conclusions. If the student asked me why I was a Christian and not a Muslim (this never happened to me) I simply changed the subject.
I think it�s irresponsible to suggest to a teacher that he can go to KSA and ��open�� people�s minds on this topic. Especially to somebody considering taking a first post in the Kingdom. I repeat, DON�T discuss religion with Saudis (in Saudi, that is). Oops, I�ve just noticed the gap you leave. Is it for dramatic effect? 
Um, aren't the two kinda contradictory?
Wouldn't a better piece of advice be to tell the inquiring student that one's religion is a private matter and that it's considered rude, as it indeed is, to ask a relative stranger about it? |
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cmp45
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Mashkif
You can pick apart what I stated all you like; it still won�t change the facts on the ground. Vehemently defending your right to state that you are an atheist not to mention your loathing of Islam in a country that is 100% governed by Islamic laws with the majority devout Muslims clearly means you are either a nut case or just plain ignorant and disrespectful of your host country. It always amazes me that people like your self would choose to live/work in a country like KSA when you hold such extreme convictions.
BTW stating that one is a 'Christian' (one word) and discussing it are two entirely different situations. The later involves a lengthy back and forth interaction which is best avoided. With your attitude, if you are not careful of your actions and what spills out of your mouth, you will more than likely find yourself out of a job, time in jail or booted out of the country; quite possibly all three.  as John stated below...
good luck since you have no God on your side...you're going to need it 
Last edited by cmp45 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:42 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dear mashkif,
With your sort of attitude, all I can do is wish you "Good Luck" (and I truly mean that.) Unfortunately, chances are you'll need it sooner or later.
Regards,
John |
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abayababy
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| If I recall correctly, my visa application had two choices for religion: Muslim and Other. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Dear abayababy,
I am a long-time adherent of the Church of the Other .
Regards,
John |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnslat may deny it but we may surmise that "The Other" is Beelzebub. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Dear scot47,
Naw, I've always been a contrarian - and the Lord of the Flies seems to be the Ruler of this world.
I'm the underground opposition .
Regards,
John |
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mashkif
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| cmp45 wrote: |
Mashkif
You can pick apart what I stated all you like; it still won�t change the facts on the ground. [straw man and ad hominem deleted] With your attitude, if you are not careful of your actions and what spills out of your mouth, you will more than likely find yourself out of a job, time in jail or booted out of the country; quite possibly all three. as John stated below...
good luck since you have no God on your side...you're going to need it |
My "attitude" is simply that going to temporarily live and work in Saudi Arabia does not:
1) Make me a Saudi,
2) Make me a Moslem, or
3) Obligate me to conform to their stereotypes of ME and my "kind."
It's called having a backbone, and is NOT mutually exclusive with obeying the laws of the land or, for that matter, establishing and nurturing amicable professional and social relations with the locals.
That is all I am going to say on the matter. Whoever reads this is free to weigh the points of view presented and decide for themselves how to proceed.[/list] |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Here's hoping most, at least, have enough smarts to make the right choice.
Regards,
John |
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