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plantagenet
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 23
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 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| You may not have time to pursue your interests. Moreover, you're not likely to save enough money to pay for your university courses. In fact, how much do you expect to earn? |
What I want to know is how do people do amazing things with their lives that whenever I attempt to research on how to do something similar it is always riddled with technicalities that make it seem impossible? For example, there is a documentary entitled "Amongst White Clouds" about an American who flies to China, travels to the Zhongnan Mountains, and studies under the Buddhist hermits there. In the documentary he mentions that he has been there for 3 years serving his teacher. How did this person manage such a thing with visa issues and such and how can I manage something similar? Unrelated to teaching abroad, but it just fascinates me how many people do such things in places like China or India but how outrageously difficult it seems when I look into it.
I was hoping to earn enough to survive and, if possible, begin earning a degree from one of the sources I mentioned previously. Perhaps by supplementing my income through freelancing I could make this a possibility if my base pay would be too low?
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Yeah, without a degree, your options are limited---not a lot of choices in terms of teaching with a proper work visa. That's the reality. I know several graduate-degreed teachers who desperately want to teach in the "exotic," high-paying UAE but don't have the years under their belts. They end up working in less appealing countries in order to build their teaching experience before taking another crack at the top jobs in Dubai or Abu Dhabi. Point is, we all have to start somewhere, and it may not be our primo choice. Yes, it's a bummer, but many teachers make the most of it before moving on to a better, more desired teaching situation. |
I understand that. I don't expect to have things handed to me on a silver platter or be given special treatment and can appreciate the need to climb the ladder so to speak. Though I would strongly prefer to go straight to China rather than start in Russia (is Russia still a possibility without a degree?) but you gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.
What's strange is the range of advice I've received on this matter though, both on this forum and elsewhere. Everything from "Sure, you can do it no problem" to "There are some risks, but it is entirely possible" to "Forget about it." I guess the only thing I can do is continue to research, save my money, and just try my best. Though if this endeavor is truly impossible or totally unrealistic, I suppose I better figure that out now before wasting my time.
Either way, I appreciate the advice I've been given here and if there is any more anyone can provide me, I'd be happy to receive it. Thanks again. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nkengaola wrote: |
| You can definitely work in China with no degree, if you are willing to work in one of the smaller cities. I work in a third-tier city, and there are at least three teachers here, legally, who don't have bachelors degrees. I'm pretty sure they are getting the same pay that those of us with four-year degrees are getting. It's really difficult to get foreign teachers in this area, so the qualifications needed are lower. |
Plenty of folks in Vietnam teaching without any degree... |
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plantagenet
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:47 am Post subject: |
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Also, does anyone know if any of the Middle Eastern countries are viable without a degree, like Turkey?
It's a strange question due to the political atmosphere, but is there a TEFL field in Iran? I've always been fascinated by traditional Iranian culture, but I imagine that even if there were a TEFL industry in Iran it'd be closed doors to an American like me. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| plantagenet wrote: |
Also, does anyone know if any of the Middle Eastern countries are viable without a degree, like Turkey?
It's a strange question due to the political atmosphere, but is there a TEFL field in Iran? I've always been fascinated by traditional Iranian culture, but I imagine that even if there were a TEFL industry in Iran it'd be closed doors to an American like me. |
Please be sure to go there, to Iran and let us know how the TEFL market is....
Your questions have been answered multiple times on this thread, and on other threads on these forums.
China is your BEST bet as there are schools there willing to hire just about anybody sight unseen. Scrape up the airfare, get some sorta visa and just GO  |
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Nkengaola
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Not saying this isn't happening, but the 'legal' issue here might be dodgy ground. Some employers in some regions may be prepared to use fake degree certification to get legal papers. So whilst it may appear that they have legal papers, they may have been gained through less than legal means. The people in question may never be aware of this. The people in question may never suffer any inconvenience or trouble because of this. However, it is fair to say that this type of working situation may come with a 'shelf-life', and it may not be something that can be continued indefinitely. |
Very true, but from what I've seen and heard at my school, somewhat unlikely. My best guess is that they are "interns" in the eyes of the government, who are receiving a "stipend" for their one-year internship. Since two are pursuing bachelor's degrees online, and the third is married to a local (and two have been here for several years, so maybe they were "grandfathered" in"), I think they'll get what they need sooner rather than later.
And, this is China. Different jurisdictions, different palms greased, different rules. |
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Nkengaola
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Wanzhou, Chongqing
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Not saying this isn't happening, but the 'legal' issue here might be dodgy ground. Some employers in some regions may be prepared to use fake degree certification to get legal papers. So whilst it may appear that they have legal papers, they may have been gained through less than legal means. The people in question may never be aware of this. The people in question may never suffer any inconvenience or trouble because of this. However, it is fair to say that this type of working situation may come with a 'shelf-life', and it may not be something that can be continued indefinitely. |
Very true, but from what I've seen and heard at my school, somewhat unlikely. My best guess is that they are "interns" in the eyes of the government, who are receiving a "stipend" for their one-year internship. Since two are pursuing bachelor's degrees online, and the third is married to a local (and two have been here for several years, so maybe they were "grandfathered" in"), I think they'll get what they need sooner rather than later.
And, this is China. Different jurisdictions, different palms greased, different rules. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: |
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^^^ like I said, they may be fine forever. Or they may not. This is China. A new official in the visa office and those 'intern' visas disappear overnight. (different case for the married person so that doesnt apply in this case or to the OP). Ive first hand experience of this, working for a long established school that had always employed people on F visas with local government approval. Just over a year later and new staff at the office and employment practices changed totally overnight.
OP - I still think its going to be difficult for you, and I have a real sense you want all the adventure and none of the hard work of the degree. 'If I dont like teaching its a waste of time'. No it isnt. Why cant you start a degree in Chinese studies now and have some academic credits before you leave? Nothing wasted there ... its a subject you are interested in.
Fact is, you are prepared to study a CELTA or TEFL course. Learn Chinese. Read books about how to teach, devote yourself to teaching practice etc. And all of those things are great ... but none of them are going to count for anything in terms of being legally qualified to work in China. Like I say ... a one year adventure, yeah ... but to expect to do it for a long term whilst avoiding the qualifications is not realistic IMHO.
Been there, done that. Started myself without a degree working in China. But as someone else mentioned, I did all the volunteer stuff first, enrolled on a degree course before I started my first paid job. Took almost 2 years off and came back home to continue a degree etc etc. I feel I managed to do it because I recognised the only way it could be acheived was through undergraduate study ... but it continually reads like you want to do it all without the study....or by delaying it, postponing it for as long as possible. |
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santi84
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it is possible to go to China. You may find a decent employer and love it, you may get completely ripped off financially and be treated like crap because you will be an illegal worker and have no recourse when it happens.
If you want to go, go. Just make sure to have a back up plan if things belly up.
You may have heard of a guy who went to China and spent his time "Amongst White Clouds" but that is really an exception to the rule. Be careful about romanticizing something that at the end of the day, is just a job with an employer and clients like any other.
Like I said, just go. The longer you waffle, the more you are in danger of romanticizing something and it may leave you utterly disappointed. It's a job. |
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