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coming over with only CoE in hand

 
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Valaki



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 85
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: coming over with only CoE in hand Reply with quote

How risky is this these days? Someone mentioned that this is OK, since you can change status in country.

What are the chances of the visa being rejected in Japan after one applies with the CoE in hand?
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See this http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=100820&start=45&sid=dcbd957a226b5c5bc597f3c497cdb39d
for what Pitarou and I have just been discussing. For me one big question is why would you in the first place? Can you not get the visa in the country you're in now? If you can then it would seem better to do so, if not then it could still be seen as an infringement on the status of residence you get given, i.e tourist status, yet tells immigration you will be actively seeking work which you shouldn't be doing officially under those landing permission terms. For me that's an obvious red flag for immigration to deny you landing permission, even though people have been able to change from tourist status to working visa status once in the country I don't know if it's official or just what's let go these days.
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Valaki



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 85
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would I want to?

Well, for one I've received about 5-6 offers from Japan and all schools indirectly pressured me to come over on a tourist visa. "Oh now that we applied for your visa, you can come anytime! How does 1 week from now sound?"

What's going on over there?! My guess is all these employers want the security of being able to get rid of someone easily in the beginning.

So I have my latest offer, and since I really want to teach in Japan, I'm going to give them what they want and go on a tourist visa. But I told them I'd like a CoE at least. My thinking is that although it's still crap, having the CoE is a significant step up from coming with nothing at all. In fact it's highly unlikely that anything could go wrong after I have my CoE - or am I wrong?
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surendra



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well CoE's aren't visas, and they are only for "eligibility". I think immigration can still refuse you. The CoE is used to get the visa which will indicate a "Guarantor" or sponsor. Also, the CoE can be cancelled at ANY time IIRC.
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valaki, as serendra says a visa isn't a Certificate of Eligibility. C of Es are basically a confirmation that the basic information necessary for getting a visa has been checked so that the visa application process can be speeded up, but it is no way a visa itself. Visa processing times are the same in Japan or at a Japanese embassy in another country so it makes no difference where you are as you still can't work without the visa, unless they're thinking of having you work illegally before you officially start.

Also this part doesn't make sense, you said the companies are saying Oh now that we applied for your visa,, but whoever's applying for the visa needs the C of E. You said you'll be bringing the C of E though, so how can the company be applying for the visa?

What kind of companies are telling you this anyway? Small rural eikaiwa or big chain ALT companies or what?
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also I just found this on the Japan Immigration website,

http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/kanri/qa.html

Look at question 6.

The problem is as you might have seem on the link I put up to the other thread, the Japanese embassy in the US recommends entering with a C of E. They don't know their arse from their elbow...
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Valaki



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 85
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well CoE's aren't visas, and they are only for "eligibility". I think immigration can still refuse you.


Yeah but what are the chances of that happening? IMO it's not very likely.

Quote:
Also this part doesn't make sense, you said the companies are saying Oh now that we applied for your visa,, but whoever's applying for the visa needs the C of E. You said you'll be bringing the C of E though, so how can the company be applying for the visa?


They all talk like this. All the companies I've received offers from. No mention of a CoE. "We applied for your visa." This is what made it clear for me that there's something going on. There's a reason why they don't even want to talk about the process in depth. They all want you to go on a tourist visa to be able to fire you early on (plus some other advantages for them).

This is why I think I'll give them what they want and enter on a tourist visa with a CoE in hand. I think (hope) the risks are minimal but correct me if I'm wrong.
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I agree it sounds very suspicious. It sounded to em like they might want you to work illegally too. What I don't get is that the C of E has to be obtained by the sponsor in Japan, so either you're applying by proxy or your company is applying. You can't both apply and have 2 C of Es for the same job. And if you did somehow get the C of E and have it in your home country it is pretty much a formality from there to apply for and get a visa, in a matter of days usually. That's what didn't make sense to me in the first place, if you can get a C of E then getting a visa and not having to worry about all of this should be no problem at all, so you should just do that. Good luck anyway!
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Valaki



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 85
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

We'll see what this latest school says when I tell them it's just a matter of days and a formality. I managed to get them to wait for the CoE so who knows.
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Valaki



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 85
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I asked, and they want me to go on a tourist visa, but as I said they are willing to wait for the C o E.

How big of a red flag is this?
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hagiwaramai



Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 119
Location: Marines Stadium

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, it just seems strange to me. My understanding is that it's the contact in Japan that applies for the C of E, which would be the company you refer to in this case, and I don't think being in Japan speeds that process up so there's no benefit in being there, and as I said once you get that the visa should be processed in 5 working days according to the Japanese embassy websites, which is not much longer to wait, and why I see no benefit in going with just the C of E. You still can't work with it, and according to the link I put up before you're not supposed to enter with just the C of E. Perhaps they just don't know the process very well. Is it a small Eikaiwa that might not be familiar with process?
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surendra



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valaki wrote:
Quote:
Well CoE's aren't visas, and they are only for "eligibility". I think immigration can still refuse you.


Yeah but what are the chances of that happening? IMO it's not very likely.

Quote:
Also this part doesn't make sense, you said the companies are saying Oh now that we applied for your visa,, but whoever's applying for the visa needs the C of E. You said you'll be bringing the C of E though, so how can the company be applying for the visa?


They all talk like this. All the companies I've received offers from. No mention of a CoE. "We applied for your visa." This is what made it clear for me that there's something going on. There's a reason why they don't even want to talk about the process in depth. They all want you to go on a tourist visa to be able to fire you early on (plus some other advantages for them).

This is why I think I'll give them what they want and enter on a tourist visa with a CoE in hand. I think (hope) the risks are minimal but correct me if I'm wrong.


I think you mis-read the info. It says you must present the CoE at an abroad mission (weird wording). I believe they refer to an overseas embassy or consulate. The refusal stated at the end refers to if the issuer (BoE, Eikaiwa) retracts the job offer, creating a changed circumstance.
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surendra



Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valaki wrote:
Quote:
Well CoE's aren't visas, and they are only for "eligibility". I think immigration can still refuse you.


Yeah but what are the chances of that happening? IMO it's not very likely.

Quote:
Also this part doesn't make sense, you said the companies are saying Oh now that we applied for your visa,, but whoever's applying for the visa needs the C of E. You said you'll be bringing the C of E though, so how can the company be applying for the visa?


They all talk like this. All the companies I've received offers from. No mention of a CoE. "We applied for your visa." This is what made it clear for me that there's something going on. There's a reason why they don't even want to talk about the process in depth. They all want you to go on a tourist visa to be able to fire you early on (plus some other advantages for them).

This is why I think I'll give them what they want and enter on a tourist visa with a CoE in hand. I think (hope) the risks are minimal but correct me if I'm wrong.


I think you mis-read the info. It says you must present the CoE at an abroad mission (weird wording). I believe they refer to an overseas embassy or consulate. The refusal stated at the end refers to if the issuer (BoE, Eikaiwa) retracts the job offer, creating a changed circumstance.
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valaki wrote:
OK I asked, and they want me to go on a tourist visa, but as I said they are willing to wait for the C o E.

How big of a red flag is this?
None at all, in my view.

It's perfectly legal to enter on a tourist visa, and change to a work visa when you're in Japan. If you have your CoE, it's conceivable that you can get your work visa on the day you arrive in Japan.

As discussed in the above-mentioned thread, the airline might take a different view on the matter and refuse to let you board, so you should talk to them in advance. If you anticipate problems, you might want to consider buying a Japan->Korea ferry ticket before you fly -- I'm told it's very cheap to cancel.
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