Job Discussion Forums

[DirtGuy]

One of the FTs will be leaving for warmer climates at the end of the year and I said I'm interested in doing the recruiting. I'm staying as are the other FTs and I think it will be a piece of cake finding someone. I already told them I want to be paid the same as a recruiter plus I want to open up the candidate pool to people of color. Some questions:

1. Has anyone else done recruiting and can you pass on some tips?

2. Can I say the job is open to non-white native speakers or am I violating some sort of law? Perhaps a stupid question but I am from the States and we have to worry about such things.

Thanks.

DirtGuy

[Denim-Maniac]

This thread should be red hot ... we are all recruiters according to some.

Id be a bit cautious and nervous about doing this job TBH. With so many flakey, incompetent and dodgy FT's in China (or in the whole industry), I'd be nervous about employing someone and vouching for them as Id be worried about my reputation taking a hit if it goes wrong.

I also wouldnt like being the new recruits 'go to guy' every time he/she has a query, problem or question. And its quite natural that you'd have to assume that role as the recruiter. Considering the complaints and issues that some FT's can (and do) bring up ... I wouldnt want that responsibility either.

When I was a commission-earning salesperson some years ago, it would be very common that we'd 'over-promise and under-deliver'. I think that is quite natural in any sales role ... if I was recruiting for my employer Id go in the opposite direction though. And that would put many a candidate off the position, but would ensure fewer issues and complaints from the person who did end up in the job.

I guess I havent offered much help at all really LOL. Being officially employed in the role of a recruiter would worry me TBH.

[vikeologist]

1. It will be interesting to hear how you get on.

I hate to sound like a contrary troll, but the 'piece of cake' things worries me. I'm not sure it will be difficult, but I can think of a lot of pitfalls, (getting money the teacher thinks should go to them, hiring someone unsuitable or not legally allowed to work)

I'm not a recruiter. I just get consulted (most of the time) when my manager recruits someone, and am friends with managers in other schools. Recruiting teachers is problematic. Much of the time you won't meet them. It's hard to verify facts. People tend to say what you want to hear, even if they're not being honest about what they want. For instance, teachers may say they're fine with working with kids, until they get to china, and then decide that they're absolutely not alright with it.

If you think through and manage the risks, it's do-able, but don't be too over-confident. I'm on your side. I hate recruiters. Good luck.

2. It's fine to advertise that you want a White teacher, so there shouldn't be any problem with 'positive discrimination'; well, not legally anyway.

You could phrase it as 'We welcome applications from all ethnicities', but I'm not convinced of the argument of actually making any reference to it at all in your ad. May I ask black forum members, would you find such a statement ok?

Honestly, I don't think you'll get lots of good applicants. May I suggest your attitude should be 'if you find someone suitable, grab them, regardless of colour, etc.'
I'm not criticising your intentions. I would want my school to hire the best person regardless of ethnicity. I'm just worried that you may think discrimination can be negated by ignoring its existence.

Really not trying to be rude. Just bluntly addressing some of the issues inherent in the small amount of info you've posted.

[Javelin of Radiance]

I wouldn't envy the job of doing the recruiting for the place I work. I recommended one guy in the past and he failed miserably. I won't do it again, and because of that experience I wouldn't want to recruit for anyone. To be a successful recruiter I honestly believe you have to bend the truth (or tell outright lies) more often than you'd like (evidence aplenty for that) and I'm not willing to do that just to get some extra coin. I do wish you good luck and would be interested in hearing about your experience if you do the job.

[Lancy Bloom]

Good choice mate. China needs more blokes like you. Most important attribute should be singing and dancing.

[DirtGuy]

Thank you everyone for your responses and I have thought about this for quite a while.

First of all, we are treated very well at this school. It is your basic uni job at $5K and fully-furnished and good housing, etc. Pay is on time, students are not high but quite (for the most part) enjoyable, we are paid on time, slow pace of life, cheap living, blah, blah, blah. I read about other's experiences on the forum and just shake my head in disbelief as none of us experience anything remotely like the horror stories that seem to be so prevalent.

Secondly, I have no intention of over-promising anything. I will tell it exactly like it is and let applicants make up their own mind. The recruiter I went through actually told the truth and the job was exactly as she described it.

Finally, the reason for opening the applicant pool to people of color is that it should, theoretically, make my job easier. To say discrimination exists in China is the understatement of the year, yet my students don't seem to care. I don't care to work any harder than I have to so a bigger applicant pool makes my job easier.

DG

[Denim-Maniac]

I also feel we get pretty well treated by our employer and experience none of the nonsense often talked about here. This includes last minute schedule changes, meetings held in Chinese, and unmotivated students ... none of which features in my job.

When Im in China I tend to be one of the teachers who gets contacted via email and bombarded with questions from prospective employees. Im always happy to respond and tend to do so at length (kinda like my posting style here sometimes) but find many of the emails and requests overly demanding and unrealistic in their expectations. Thankfully most of our staff roster is filled with returning teachers, who always outnumber new staff members. That core of staff tends to set a certain standard that newer staff members fall into but I have still seen some horrendous teachers and ridiculous demands and requests.

I can just about cope with emails, and generally being a helpful guy to new arrivals, but being responsible for their actual recruitment would be too much for me.

DG - Let us know how you get on with it!

[choudoufu]

first off, you gotta be clear.........are you doing the recruiting only?
or do they expect you to be the FAO for the new hires? are you
going to handle all the paperwork.......visas, invitation letters,
work permits? do you know enough chinese to manage the
bureaucracy?

do you gotta hold their hands after they arrive? pick up at the airport,
take care of lodging, get RP's and FEC's, schedule the healthy exams?
do you know the laws concerning hiring employees? will you be
responsible for signing anything?

many landmines. be careful.

[dean_a_jones]

As others have already said, it can be a bit of a pain to get yourself involved in this kind of thing as it can raise all sorts of strange expectations with the school. I do recruitment for where I am and have not had a problem, but my invovlement and responsibilities are clear.

I do interviews with people who apply, or people who I recommend myself. For the latter, this is people who I have perhaps interviewed before, or people I know or have been recommended by people I know. However, with anyone I first pass their CV onto the FAO for them to 'approve' before I go ahead and interview them. If the person is in China already, we arrange a short demo class (30 minutes) with a few office staff, Chinese teachers, myself and students. This works well, as everyone gives their feedback. I might also take the lead with questions afterwards.

If they are not in China, I do a Skype interview (usually lasts 45 minutes or an hour) and then give detailed feedback on strenghts and weaknesses as I percieve them, as well as information such as how long someone thinks they want to teach for etc. If I interview multiple people, I give a general idea of which one(s) I think are best suited for the role.

In terms of recruitment, that is pretty much where my role ends. All the paperwork etc. is handled by someone else. I do hold their hand when they arrive and find their feet if needed, do training and introductions etc. but that is part of my job anyway. I enjoy recuitment as it gives me a connection with some interesting people who I will then be working alongside, and I like being able to give input on this as I manage these people when they arrive. I also help create and edit job ads, although I don't usually post them myself. I am not the main point of contact for recruitment--I work more or less as an assessment tool of their English language ability, background and intentions. The other real benefit (to the school) is that having someone like me interview helps attract good teachers--I can answer questions about life here, talk in detail about the school, what teaching is like etc. It helps applicants take the place seriously and seems more professional and organised.

I will say this though--I think the biggest danger for doing recruitment if you are not careful is if the school gets all the paperwork for the Z-visa completed but then the FT decides not to come, as that will have cost the school some money and they may try to blame you if you are responsible for the recruitment, especially if it happens more than once. It is not really something you can control, so you might want to ensure that if this happens you will not be held responsible for paying for this. The other issue is if someone does not turn up at the last minute, or pulls a runner just after arriving--again, you don't want to be blamed and asked to pick up the slack (for free) in this case.

Hope that helps.

[DirtGuy]

d_a_j,

What you describe is pretty much how we have, verbally, arranged matters. Still in the negotiating stages at the moment and all this info helps me state the parameters of the task.

My weakness, bluntly, is in the interview process. Is it possible to get a list of the questions you ask and some idea of the response(s) you are looking for?

Thanks.

DG

[dean_a_jones]

[Babala]

Hiring is one of my least favourite tasks. As others have stated, it means responding to numerous questions from many applicants. You may be in contact with someone for a month answering every question they have and then suddenly, you never hear from them again. You need not specify that you will accept applicants from people of different ethnic backgrounds as from my past experience, people of all races will apply (whether white only is stated or not).

Remember this though. What is great about your school for you may not meet another teacher's requirements and then you are stuck working with them all year.

[wonderingjoesmith]

Interesting how a foreign teacher in the country gets this respectable opportunity. I can�t imagine how sincere a verbal or non-verbal exchange in between the teacher-recruiter and teacher-applicant may be. Chances to provide views on candidates may elevate one�s profile with the employer; test the individual�s commitment and perhaps integrity too.

For such foreign advisers, there have got to be some alluring benefits that are most likely unparallel to the professional human resource managers or other kinds of recruiting directors. How liable one may be for the newcomer when in the same school is something I am wondering about. Being brought in by one who can genuinely support the new staff member is one thing; being drawn by one who has little to say in the school, and who only gets a smallish commission for the recruiting is another thing.

My employer, for example, has recently offered me a role that the OP is interested in as well as a couple thousand for every successful applicant I forward to the office. This is my first year in the country and judging by what I have read or heard around accepting this assignment may improve my image as well as it may increase my chances of contracts and work visa renewals. Whether the new staff members are treated professionally or not is, to me, one important concern to consider, and I am afraid that that is out of my control in this school. Therefore, I am not so anxious to follow the ambition suggested in this thread.

This brings me to the original post. It�s not about what you get paid or what color of skin you are able to bring in but about how you and the agreement can assist all the living colors on their jobs.

Nobody is drafted to their teaching positions but some may get a pretty vague image when reading or listening to messages from ones on the ground which I have seen around. Representing our employers in a professional manner is probably as material as the time that applicants sign into.

[chinadad]

[rogerwilco]