Job Discussion Forums

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

If you are recruited for a job in Saudi Arabia by some recruiting company - even if they are based in the US or UK or wherever... though many of them seem to be in KSA - your employment is covered under the laws of the country of the contract, which is going to be Saudi Arabia.

So... sorry, but they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

Here is one of the things which we have said over and over and over here for the last few years as these business/visit visas have become common. If you come to Saudi Arabia on this kind of visa, you have no right to work. So, you have no recourse to make your employer pay you if he chooses not to - because you have no right to be working to earn said money in the first place.

Don't expect the laws of your home country or the country where you were recruited or the country of your recruiter to protect you. They will not.

VS

HystericalHoosier · Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Posts: 22

Veil

I'm afraid you are a little bit misinformed about basic contract law and jurisdiction.

The real trick is finding assets of the defendant in the home country. That is why whenever possible the Saudi government should be named as a defendant.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

There was a case some time back when after a court case Saudi Arabian Airlines had a 747 impounded atNew Yorky Airport until they paid up what had been awarded in a court case.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Oh yeah... and some TEFL teacher is going to do the same? In their heated dreams... Rolling Eyes

All it will do is enrich a batch of lawyers and cost that teacher 100 times what the low-life university might have owed them.

Corporations have power... teachers do not. The most that might be accomplished is perhaps pushing some local recruiter out of business. (the guy with a cell phone and a laptop, who works out of the local Starbucks)

VS

HystericalHoosier · Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Posts: 22

[quote]Corporations have power... teachers do not.[/quote][quote]

Veil

Boy, You've been watching way too many BBC specials. I know some guys named Silverstein, Goldberg and Katz that would like nothing more than pulling the cover off the rotting corpse of Saudi society. [/quote]

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject:

Dear HystericalHoosier,

On the other hand, perhaps you've been reading too much fantasy. But please do keep us informed of your law firms' progress in puling off that cover.

Regards,
John

HystericalHoosier · Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Posts: 22

Fantasy? Of course, we are in the magic kingdom, aren't we.

I will keep you inform to the proceedings before the Labor Board. It seems there are several teachers at King Saud with no valid visa.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject:

Dear HystericalHoosier,

Don't know if you're familiar with the saga of sheikher, who went up against the unfair practices of his employer

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=87466&highlight=sheikher

"The purpose of this thread is to plead for your support for SHEIKHER by sending a message on the following link: [email protected]

Sheikher is currently locked up in a mental institution in Al Hassa, KSA.
For those who may not know of him�a brief summary.

Sheikher is a Canadian teacher who was employed in 2008 by Shabakah in Al Hassa, KSA to teach the English preparatory programme at King Faisal University also in Al Hassa.

His contract was terminated in December, 2008 and since then he has been fighting Shabakah for justice regarding his contract and also for his personal dignity.

He won his dispute with Shabakah in early 2009 at the local labour Court. Shabakah then asked for an appeal at the labour supreme Court in Riyadh.
Many times the supreme court hearings were delayed because they did not provide a translator which is one of the basic human rights under the UN Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Recently, in December 2010, the Supreme court came to a decision that awarded a small amount of money to Sheikher and a one way ticket back to Canada.

Sheikher tried to appeal this decision by requesting to meet the King and also threatened to commit suicide, which is why he was sent to the psychiatric institution.

Sheikher has been living in a small apartment in Al Hassa with often no security protection�as is the law for Westerners in the KSA.

Consequently, his apartment was broken into several times, he was beaten by the local police, he has little or no money for basic personal necessities, he was previously abducted and locked up at the same mental institution several times and he has been attacked on the streets in Al Hassa."

Only "several" teachers? Allah knows how many hundreds (if not more) are currently in the Kingdom working (illegally) on "business visas".

Good luck (and that's NOT sarcasm).

Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I can't watch the BBC here in the US... and rarely watch TV at all.

From reading these boards, it seems that the majority of teachers in Saudi Arabia do not have legal work visas nowadays... and it reads here as if all of the government universities have gone to this system.

Do let us know how this little lawsuit goes...

VS
(Americans need not even think about it... no fantasy law firm exists to do this for nothing. You can't afford an American lawyer... so just bite the bullet and move on with your life)

HystericalHoosier · Joined: 30 Sep 2011 Posts: 22

Contrary to what Veil has indicated, bringing a suit is not that difficult. If there is any money to be made, then an attorney will take the case on contingency. The suit can be brought at your home base and force the recruiter to come to you.

It is much more difficult to sue a foreign sovereign, but if it can be shown that KSU knew what was going (and clearly they did) and went along with the scam there may be a hook. But at the very least, it is always good to shine a light on an infection.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

Wow! It sounds like the FBI and Homeland Security need to get involved! Shocked

laylow · Joined: 12 Feb 2011 Posts: 37

laylow · Joined: 12 Feb 2011 Posts: 37

Can anyone here provide the latest details on the original topic of this thread? Is there still litigation against ICEAT? And I can only conclude that there are still many teachers working on business visas? Has anyone else experienced problems getting a business visa renewed. I know it differs from one employer to another but do employers generally pay for your flight and hotel if you have to leave the country to renew? In addition, there are some employers who (whether legally or not) find a way to renew passports without the teacher having to leave. What about ICEAT? Do they still require a teacher to physically leave and who pays for the hotel and flight? Thank you for all replies. I am very curious on the outcome of an instructor discussed in the opening of this thread and would like to know if she was indeed blacklisted!!

Feel free to PM me.

johnslat · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:22 pm Post subject:

Dear laylow,

"In addition, there are some employers who (whether legally or not) find a way to renew passports . . ."

I think you mean visas, not passports, don't you? I renewed my own passport in Riyadh at the embassy.

Regards,
John