Job Discussion Forums

fluffyhamster · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject:

@Xie Lin:Yeah, I edited to make it sound better. Is that OK with you? Rolling Eyes

There are stickies regarding certs already, aren't there? The only reason for most new threads on the subject is that people are increasingly looking for a bargain (or the best value, and why not). And the only reason for Spiral's thread here is presumably to ultimately pounce on anyone who might go for the poll's last option and openly say so. And I'm afraid people will really have to get over the fact that some places simply do not require certs, but still manage to end up with some reasonable (and some qualified!) teachers. As it is however it seems easier to tar whole regions with the same brush than credit people there with some initiative, conscience, or integrity.

One day there will probably be a certificate recommended if not required for breathing. (ELT's a bit harder than that to do well, but ONLY if you do a cert and then follow it to the letter. (Did that last sentence quite make sense? Twisted Evil

)).

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Here's the original:

fluffyhamster · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject:

I earned my CTEFLA in the UK, Spiral, and the puffed-up effrontery happened soon after in the same town. I'm sure that even back then, there were a number of Dips and even MAs floating around who could've perhaps dropped in on the act and at least waggled a finger. But I guess they didn't.

To be clear, I don't think certs are completely worthless, I just don't believe they are that rigorous a qualification, and that more could be done in the month that it buys. But I wouldn't necessarily want the expense if not time of ITT to increase much beyond that, and would agree that ELT at its basic chalkface heart should ultimately be a more practical rather than academic endeavour for foreign learners.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject:

Fluffy, how about this? I'll pay for you to take the Delta course. Then come back and say it could have packed in a little more, or was not rigorous enough for you. I predict that, despite yourself and your stomach, you would learn quite a lot and be a better teacher for it. I know I was, as were all m'colleagues.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

And, one more time, the actual point(s) of the thread:

Here's the original:

Quote:
Everywhere I've worked, a CELTA or equivalent is pretty much needed to compete on the job market right away. But I know that in many parts of the world, quals aren't required.

How long did you teach before getting some related quals?

What was/is it like teaching without training?

Do you think qualifications should be required everywhere, or is it really not necessary in some situations? If yes, which ones?

Let me expand a bit now:

When you taught/teach without training, what sorts of approaches do you tend to adopt with your students?
How did you decide what approaches you wanted to take?
How have your students responded?
What kinds of support are offered by your school, colleagues, directors, whatever?
How do you choose what to teach?
Do you feel that you'd benefit pedagogically from qualifications, or would it be just a piece of paper that might get you better pay?
If you are qualified, did the qual actually help you teach better (I believe we have already some affirmative responses to this question in earlier pages).

fluffyhamster · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:38 pm Post subject:

Sash, I really have no desire to do the Dip. I know it is no stroll in the park, and getting the observed part done seems tricky. The main reason however is that UCLES (well, more CUP) has seen quite enough of my money already!

DebMer · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:10 am Post subject:

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:20 am Post subject:

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Thanks for the input, DebMer!
I'm curious about the professional development opps offered; you say they're not really useful. It would be interesting to know what they do focus on and maybe why -
We've been involved in pd for a few years and it's such a great opportunity to do some really productive stuff, given ability to plan ahead and enough agreement among teachers about goals and aims....pd can also enhance ones CV/resume a little - or a lot, depending on what's done and how...

fluffyhamster · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure if you are being serious about the costs, Sash, but I'll decline as if I were to do the Delta I'd prefer to pay for myself than be an experimental subject or whatever LOL. Anyway, care to spell out in detail the 'massive benefits' of the Delta? Perhaps on a new thread? What does a reasonably well-read teacher stand to learn, for example? If you do, I promise to give your (and any other's) replies due consideration in proportion to the fullness (or not) of the answer(s). Or should I just search the forums and/or Google around a bit? I genuinely do not want to impose.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject:

I'll be happy to outline the benefits of further training for you, Fluffy. But are you seriously asking? Personal reading is a great way to improve - but autodidacticism carries its own disadvantages too.

DebMer · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject:

The opportunity is there for productivity, but the office is too understaffed/overworked to prepare for it properly, so the time is used inefficiently. It's all thrown together on the fly. It's not that there's zero benefit, but most of it comes from the small amount of time that the instructors are communicating in groups about practices and curriculum.

Or, for example, our fall SD is scheduled to give further training in use of one of our curricula that only about half of the instructors have in their classrooms. In my case that 4-hour portion of the SD will be mostly wasted. They're transitioning away from the grammar/conversation materials that many of us have, but it's still in daily use in about half of the classes. They don't do training in the one I use, because they don't have plans to order more from that company.

The SDs do have a good social-professional networking purpose, as our classrooms are decentralized, so I meet with other instructors only twice a year during SD. I enjoy seeing everybody and making new contacts, but don't really feel better trained as a result of SD.

It's really a mixed evil/blessing, because I love the independence I have in my work to be creative and tailor the class to my students. But I would also like more input from and communication with my employer, and more training.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:19 pm Post subject:

Sasha, I said I would give any replies due consideration. And they can be about MAs as well as or instead of the Delta. And I obviously mean comments other than "I learnt tons, and you will too!" or "It were fab!" (which tell me nothing of the person's state of knowledge going into the qualification. I hate to sound conceited, but I think I know a bit more than some applicants. Note that this is NOT the same thing as saying I don't think I can ever learn more, but consideration has to be given to the average level of the cohort. That is, I do not want to cover ground that I am already familiar with. That is a fair concern, as far as I am concerned). Perhaps from your hesitancy to reply, you can't actually think of that much that you learnt? Or was there simply too much going on, to "choose" from, on the course? Either way, please don't feel compelled to furnish me with much of a reply if you really don't think I will do you the honour of reading it with any interest whatsoever. (Lets us both off the hook, eh?). Anyway, no rush.