Job Discussion Forums

[wangdaning]

[Shroob]

Touch wood I've never had a class that show the stereotypical, 'Chinese shyness' I hear so much about. I think a lot of it is to do with offering a supportive environment to learn, on lesson one of every semester I make sure they know that mistakes will be made and it's nothing to fear/be embarrassed of. I have students come up to me and say they like my class because they are, 'free'. I know other teachers who have made students cry before, I can't even begin to imagine that.

[dakelei]

I read this thread and had a serious internal debate as to whether I should add to it or not. My students this year are, and last year were as well, first year university and of course overwhelmingly female. There are times when I know I talk too much and I�m self-aware enough to know why: Standing in front of a group of somewhat attractive young women who giggle and smile at everything I say is kind of cool, I�ll admit. It�s quite an ego boost. I�m sure for the younger guys this is even more pronounced. (I�m 52.) You take a mid-20�s white guy from any Western country and unless he�s totally ugly with a horn growing out of his head he�s often considered �handsome� here in China. All he has to do is stand there and not noticeably drool on himself and he is considered a �good� teacher by many students used to some no-personality Chinese teacher who very likely got their job by simply knowing somebody in the office that hires people. (Or perhaps their parents or some other �guanxi� holding relative.) Add in the fact that these same �handsome� young guys have little or no training, background or experience in education and it�s not hard to explain why so many choose to stand in front of the room and talk. It�s been working for them. The few real students who actually want to speak more are too �shy� to say anything and the administration doesn�t care much.

However, I�ve taught here in China for more than 10 years now at every level, from kindergarten though university and adults. The little kids are amazingly enthusiastic and speak out at every opportunity. This seems to continue through 5th Grade and then drops off precipitously. The game-changer, from what I�ve seen at least, is 6th Grade. That is when students begin largely prepping for �exams,� the first of which determines which junior middle school they will attend. The actual speaking of English is often totally abandoned, in favor of preparing for written exams. This is also, unfortunately, when students enter that awkward phase of development we call �adolescence.� When I was teaching students this age I tried very hard to introduce and strictly enforce a �no laughing at one another� rule. I was somewhat successful but when I observed Chinese teachers I saw many had no such rule or didn�t bother to enforce it. As a result students become absolutely terrified to stand up in front of their peers and make even the tiniest mistake because they know they will be brutally ridiculed for it. (I�ve found that allowing students to remain seated while answering helps ease the anxiety a bit.) Besides, speaking is not all that important anyway, right? It�s not part of the �exam.�

I�ve noticed that my uni students are in many ways �younger� than their counterparts at home. Their real age might be 19 or 20 but they still think and behave like 14 or 15 year olds in the USA. They giggle incessantly, for beginners and seem constantly nervous. I try my best to make them �comfortable� but they still laugh at every little mistake a classmate makes, which irritates me to no end. They should know better by now. Or, to me at least even more annoyingly, they constantly try to �help� one another. Many students say one word and then begin nervously looking around the room for �help.� Therefore, between the fear of being laughed at and the knowledge that someone will �help� them if needed quite a few students never speak a complete sentence, either grammatically or otherwise.

However, what I find most troublesome is that many, if not most, students only seem to pay actual attention when the teacher is talking or a �teacher-centered� type dialogue is taking place. I do a lot of �role-play� things where I present a scenario and a small group of 3-5 students will have a conversation either in front of the room or at their seats. I deliberately do not give them a whole lot of time to do this (usually one period of a two period class) because I don�t want them to write, memorize and then �recite� something even though that appears to be what they prefer. Often when one group is presenting its conversation the other students are simply not listening and are often buzzing in the background, which I find very distracting. I ask them repeatedly to at least be quiet if they don�t want to listen to their classmates but sometimes I have to repeat this several times. Just last week I lost my temper on a class when the background buzzing simply didn�t stop. And this was in a normally �good� class. I've considered giving a grade to students for good listening to their peers or using a �check� system to penalize students who aren't listening. (I did this at home when I taught high school history in New Jersey.) However, it might be too time consuming and ultimately self-defeating as a result. I�d be too busy checking to really listen to the students I�m trying to help speak better. I�m thinking that at least part of the problem might be my age. It seems that the Younger Generation even at home is much better at dealing with distracting background buzz than I am. It might also, of course, be �cultural� in that Chinese are forced to sit through so many boring classes and meetings that they have developed a system for dealing with them. I've been to many events here where it seems the audience is not paying any attention at all to what is happening on the stage.

Sorry about this rambling post. I guess my point is I try to reduce my Teacher Talk Time but due to my own personal foibles and the conditions under which I work it�s a challenge. I would not cast stones at anyone who is having trouble with this �problem� here.

[roadwalker]

dakelei, I'd say my experience with teaching uni students is similar to yours. I catch myself rambling when something in the lesson brings up another off-topic "interesting" (to me) fact or phenomenon. I don't really measure my speaking time though: as long as I see and hear conversations in English for good portions of the class, I figure it was a good class.

I also cannot deal with the background buzz (male voices are worse, as a rule) and often shush the class. I think I'm well known for raising my voice (not really yelling, just speaking at a very high volume) when the last remaining holdouts chat away without noticing that everything has stopped around them. Sometimes it works, as does simply waiting them out in silence. I usually don't dwell on a disruption though: I don't want them afraid of me or afraid to talk in front of me. I tried to switch from exasperated to enthusiastic as quickly as possible to ease the tension, once I've made my point. (Maybe that just makes me seem scarier. )

I was brought up to fake interest, if necessary, in class or when attending a performance or lecture. I sometimes ask a student that I'm pretty sure wasn't listening to his/her classmate to recap what was said just now. I don't like to shame students who have a hard time with English, but I want them to listen to each other. Sometimes that seems to help, but you are correct that it is hard to pay attention to the student I originally called on for their input. I seldom get near my dream scenario where they listen to and correct each other and ask each other questions about their responses. If I can get their confidence up a bit more, that's in the realm of possibility.

[MisterButtkins]

Some people have to teach classes with as many as 70 students... I don't see how you can do a class like that without 99% TTT

Also, TTT is good for the students to practice listening.

[Non Sequitur]

A 70 student class makes no difference to the aim to minimise TTT.
It will take a full two lessons probably, for all students to speak but that's the way it is.
It doesn't matter which student is talking as long as you ain't.

[rogerwilco]

[MisterButtkins]

[MisterButtkins]

[rogerwilco]

[LarssonCrew]

I see both sides,BUT, especially with a mixed bunch class, i.e. masters students thrown together, it can be hit or miss.

Sometimes it's impossible to plan, some student's can talk for 30 minutes, some cannot understand 'I like blue instead of green.'

Therefore the better student's get bored... and sometimes the poorer student's don't understand what the better student's are saying.

I've had members of the class say 'can you talk for ten minutes and tell us about... x y z.'

[MisterButtkins]

[Shroob]

The key with large classes is to break them down into groups. My classes have 25-35 students normally and I'd like to think I spend 10% of the lesson talking. Giving instructions, feedback, modelling etc.

Mixed ability classes are harder, I used to get the stronger students to lead the weaker ones. Even though I now teach English majors their is still a large gap in ability.

[Non Sequitur]

[LarssonCrew]

What's a joke though is that if you've ever seen an IELTS preparation class presented by a Chinese, or Chinese English classes, it's the teacher talking 100% of the time, whether they make mistakes or not.

A student took an IELTS prep class for speaking in a fairly well known school in Xi'an, he said they spoke Chinese for 90% of the class, and taught them how to cheat more than improve.

But feedback/self study[speaking in individual groups is self study inside the class in my opinion], is almost non existent in Chinese teacher's classes. It's still based on 'you listen, I say.'

The thing is, if I put the student's in groups, the only ones normally speaking are the best, so they'll improve while the poorer ones don't get better.

Still, any university or class that expects great progress with more than 30 in a speaking class is in dire straights anyway and expecting miracles.