Job Discussion Forums

[Paul1234]

Hey all,

So I'm a newbie thinking of coming to Vietnam pretty much ASAP and start looking for jobs on the ground (had no luck from home). I heard however that the immigration laws have changed recently i.e no extended tourist visas and no purchasable business visas on arrival- can anyone confirm this?

My main question is how much has this change in the law has actually effected the work situation on the ground. Is reliable work harder to come by? If I don't find work before my tourist visa runs out am I screwed?

I also cannot find any information on particular times of the year to look for a job- does anyone think the next few months is a bad time to go? I'm not that fussed with a bog standard Vietnam wage for newbies (I'm quite frugal) but the main thing for me is to have a reliable employer. I'm also not fussed for locations but my first choice is HCMC.

I know that's vague but would really appreciate any help!

Cheers guys

[LettersAthruZ]

There have been a few different threads where both of these questions have been addressed in the fairly recent past.

For the visa question - you have heard correctly -

Again, to repeat - effective January 1st 2013, NO MORE B-3s (Business visas) are being issued upon arrival, only C-2s (Tourist) are being issued upon arrival and NOW there are NO MORE RENEWALS/EXTENSIONS AT ALL on the C-2s.

Basically, what is happening is that the few remaining employers (in The North, anyways) who ARE still issuing Work Permits are NOW using your three-month C2 visa as a sort of "trial-period" and if they don't deem you worthy, off you go! (Contract of not - doesn't matter......what are you going to do? Sue them for breach of contract when you're hanging around on an expired visa????). If they DO deem you worthy, they'll pay the rather hefty bribe to the authorities and you'll receive your work permit within two weeks (usually).

If not, then it's the ole Bangkok Run (as you can ONLY get a visa-on-arrival by air) for you!

This is a simple attempt to A) - Remove The Freelancers (who compete directly against Vietnamese Nationals who own language centers/private English schools/mills) B) - Remove the INDIVIDUAL illegal Chinese workers who are NOT tied to a construction project being performed by a Chinese Company and C) - Stuff the pockets of Government workers a bit (because, after all, they paid 100 Million - 500 Million to GET that Government job in the first place....so this gets them a bit of a return on their investment) by making an actual Work Permit MORE valuable now (thusly, the bribe for obtaining said Permit has gone up an estimated 33% since January 1st, 2013)

More bulls**t......that's all.....

In terms of the best time of the year to find jobs in HCMC.....I could only guess maybe summer, for when the kids are out of Public School???

In any respect, look at past threads - they will give you a better idea as to WHEN is the best time of the year to go looking for gigs.

Hope this helps......

[Mushroom Druid]

[LettersAthruZ]

My pleasure, Druid!

You bring up some excellent questions.

What do I think will happen?

I really don't think that there will be consequences regarding the way centres/schools/mills have been doing things for the past four months in terms of visas and Work Permits.

Now, I'm being 110% SPECULATIVE here, but my guess is that until the economic nightmare in Europa ends, these places see an endless supply of fresh (usually) White faces coming in off of the boat looking to teach English.

There used to be a fairly decent shortage of instructors (and, i *THINK* you have been here long enough to remember that) a few years back, but now, we have a glut, and the new visa regulations only help to serve these schools in getting a T�y teacher and then going "three-and-out" with them when their visa is up. I've already seen it happen up here personally to at least three different colleagues at two different schools.

THEE only consequence that I can foresee is that a lot of these mills are contracted with Public Schools in the major cities, and the Public School Directors might raise a fuss about why their classes are getting a different T�y every three months, but that is the only repercussion that I can see down the road regarding this policy.



I also freelance by choice. But what I was getting at is that little Linh's or Hai's parents come to me to privately tutor them or a business client wants me to travel out to Long Bien, Ha Noi or up to Quan Toan, Hai Phong, to design and operate a course for their sales staff or their managers who are headed off to South Korea or Japan or Europe.........

.....and when these clients DO come to me for services, little Linh and Hai are NOT going to go to ILA/ACER/[insert name of random mill here], nor is company X going to call Apollo/V.A.T.C./Language Link/[insert name of random mill here] to send somebody out to their facility in a taxi to train their staff.

Thusly, since most or all of these companies are either owned by or franchised out to Vietnamese Nationals, people like you and I are perceived as a threat (right now, albeit a small one) to take customers away from them, thus they complain to The Ministry of Education and Training and also to the Ministry of Veterans, Invalids and Social Affairs and state that this situation with freelancers is not in the National interest, so, hence, the idiotic new visa policies.

[Mushroom Druid]

[legionlabs]

Your situation may vary but... in terms of visas, heres what I did recently:

I had a C1 issued in Bangkok. I needed a B3 multiple-entry for work (I've moved on from teaching). I was able to get it locally (HCMC) for 2.7mil (USD135), with the stamp showing that it cost USD95.

It was ready in 3 days, I didn't even have to leave home, and I can get it extended if I need. So, in other words... if you don't find work... you're OK as long as you have money. Many tourism companies offer this type of service, make some friends, then use what they swear by.

Of course, if you're the owner of a foreign corporation that has a branch here, you can get a residency card. You have to like paperwork, and I think you pay 10% VAT. If you do that, please start an english-teacher temp agency and get permits for the other nice people on this forum

In terms of work, last I saw was that a newbie with no certification can get 12-15$/hour. Work will be unreliable, so try to work for multiple places. This way if one place fails to pay you, you just leave. Build up some experience, make some friends, then transition into offering private classes.

It's good that you expect to live frugally, but it will take time to learn how to do that here. In HCMC suburbs, frugal cost of living can easily be 700$/month until you figure out how to live well off 300$/month.

-S

[kurtz]

[LettersAthruZ]

A B-3 from a travel agent for $135USD??

Damm, Legion! You must have some "good relationships" with the right people for being able to get it at THAT price now!

'course, I remember back in the (not so) good ole days when I had to deal with visa renewals and extensions and visa runs - I would ALWAYS make sure that Tan Son Nhat would be my first entry point into Viet Nam because a visa RENEWAL/EXTENSION (back before January 1st when you could legally get visas renewed and extended) would cost $45USD in District One and up to $210USD in Hoan Kiem, Ha Noi (the corruption in The North is breathtaking), so what you're saying doesn't surprise me!

What you are saying you did would not be possible in The North for less than three hundred USD, though. I'm almost positive of it!!

[Rabbit81]

[8balldeluxe]

He's asked for a "reliable employer" . Persons here might wonder what that means exactly. The question is are you a reliable employee? Lately it is quite difficult to get one and long term expats stay at the same job forever.
The way some of these posters tell it, there is an imaginary reliable employer somewhere giving good wages and not letting you down, eventually, somehow.
Those who think they will be OK because they now make $20 full time or more are in for a surprise when they find that those kinds of jobs are temporary. Employers don't seem to care who you are or how good you are, or can not really tell. But students can tell but it may not matter. In this society resumes and cvs have the names of acquaintances and important persons and who your family is and people often have to buy jobs. In such a work environment you can't count on the same sort of job application skills or cv to help you.
Unfortunately for the person who dissed CEFALT employees for working for $12-$15, that is still higher than the middle class demographic ability to pay, workers there cite the reliability of many hours as a plus. You can't out scam or out-game it. Going for higher paying jobs is playing the short game. Those jobs often hang you out to dry or leave you hanging for months with no hours while they recoup the loss from your high pay. You might luck out and land a higher paying job but it won't put you into a higher earning bracket in the long run. The best you can hope for is a lot of hours.

[Oh My God]

[ExpatLuke]

[BenE]

[kurtz]

[vabeckele]

I started by giving the less educated amongst us a dig about the delivery of the finer points of the English language. However, does this mean they should be treated any lesser than all of us who have PhD's? No.

We do not have the family connections, the social networks and the wider community's support, which makes life a little more difficult for all of us. The visa process is just one of the means to set us apart. When I think of the locals surviving on just 2 million VND a month and what my chances of doing that are, it becomes quite apparent some other forces are at work.

It would be in everyone's interest to treat foreign English teachers the same way: provide a stable working environment with a remuneration applicable to the circumstances here. Getting around the problem of those not so serious about teaching, hi tailing out of places after a month or two, may be solved by having contracts drawn up on probationary 3 month contracts.

Unfortunately, the trend seems to be going in the opposite direction, and until it changes I will not be back again - I'm outta here.