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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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 Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject: EAP/ESP ....not the cool kind ! |
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Question for those of you with doctoral degrees or otherwise been around the block in the EAP/ESP world. I am nearing completion of my MA in Applied Linguistics from a respectable brick and mortar. I envision that I will be involved in EAP/ESP/foundational year prep programs in universities either here, elsewhere (Middle East/China) or at home (Canada).
My question is this � how significant a factor are grades or MA classification (pass-merit-distinction) with respect to employability within the EAP field?
Any thoughts are most welcome!
Last edited by TeacherInChina on Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: EAP/ESP ....not the cool kind ! |
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| TeacherInChina wrote: |
| My question is this � how significant a factor are grades or MA classification (pass-merit-distinction) with respect to employability within the EAP field? |
Grades aren't an issue; what's important is that you've completed a related MA. However, depending on where in the Mid East you apply, be aware most employers consider relevant experience gained post-degree when factoring in qualifications and determining salary. In other words, any teaching you did prior to completion of your degree isn't likely to be counted. |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: EAP/ESP ....not the cool kind ! |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| TeacherInChina wrote: |
| My question is this � how significant a factor are grades or MA classification (pass-merit-distinction) with respect to employability within the EAP field? |
Grades aren't an issue; what's important is that you've completed a related MA. However, depending on where in the Mid East you apply, be aware most employers consider relevant experience gained post-degree when factoring in qualifications and determining salary. In other words, any teaching you did prior to completion of your degree isn't likely to be counted. |
I appreciate the quick response.
Yeah, that is an issue, and if I choose the Mid East, I may have to bite the bullet and take a lower salary if it at least allows me to get a foot In the door. I would likely be looking at positions that overlook these requirement for a first time EAP position, though I have been teaching English for 5+ years (not oral English).
Besides having the MA, regardless of classification obtained, is the dissertation itself of any significance ? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: EAP/ESP ....not the cool kind ! |
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| TeacherInChina wrote: |
I would likely be looking at positions that overlook these requirement for a first time EAP position, though I have been teaching English for 5+ years (not oral English).
Besides having the MA, regardless of classification obtained, is the dissertation itself of any significance ? |
Just so you know, your lack of post-MA teaching experience may not get your foot in the door with the better employers. However, if your BA is related to TEFL and meets the minimum requirements for the position, then they may factor that in but at a lower salary. Anyway, in regard to your dissertation, again, employers will just care that you have a relevant MA and a CELTA or equivalent (onsite 120-hour) TEFL cert. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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I never had any employer ask about or look at grades or my thesis topic.
They were more concerned that I had an MA and the required experience post-MA. That will be your major hurdle...
VS |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
I never had any employer ask about or look at grades or my thesis topic.
They were more concerned that I had an MA and the required experience post-MA. That will be your major hurdle...
VS |
Yeah, I can't think of any compelling reason why they would consider grades as long as it was completed. However, I have been surprised countless times with what I have evaluated on in my time teaching, so I thought I would seek some wisdom from those in the know.
Right, the post-MA requirement, that is a pickle. If I remember correctly, there were a few places mentioned in Mid E. that would take you on. Even at a lower salary, it would enable me to cut my teeth in the field at least. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| What are your specific qualifications/teaching experience? |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: EAP/ESP ....not the cool kind ! |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| TeacherInChina wrote: |
I would likely be looking at positions that overlook these requirement for a first time EAP position, though I have been teaching English for 5+ years (not oral English).
Besides having the MA, regardless of classification obtained, is the dissertation itself of any significance ? |
have a relevant MA and a CELTA or equivalent (onsite 120-hour) TEFL cert. |
I have feared this. I have an online 100 hour course, but that seems irrelevant. I don't really fancy going in for a CELTA after I finish my MA, but it seems to be the way the tide is turning, correct me if im wrong. NO CELTA - no positions available in the Mid. E.
Do you think if I racked up a year ot two in an EAP joint-venture or pre-sessional program that the CELTA could be waived ? Generally speaking I mean, as i know each region may be more or less strict than the next one. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TeacherInChina wrote: |
| I have feared this. I have an online 100 hour course, but that seems irrelevant. I don't really fancy going in for a CELTA after I finish my MA, but it seems to be the way the tide is turning, correct me if im wrong. NO CELTA - no positions available in the Mid. E. |
Not all ME employers specify a CELTA; as you'll see in some job ads, an equivalent TEFL cert often suffices. By equivalent, that means the teacher training course must have entailed at least 120 hours of face-to-face instruction in addition to supervised practice teaching with real students. The key component is the supervised practicum. CELTA and other similar branded and some generic TEFL certs verify to employers that you've received supervised training. Anything less won't cut it.
| and wrote: |
| Do you think if I racked up a year ot two in an EAP joint-venture or pre-sessional program that the CELTA could be waived ? Generally speaking I mean, as i know each region may be more or less strict than the next one. |
I don't know what that would involve, and you certainly don't want a prospective employer to have to guess either. Perhaps you can talk to your uni advisor about doing a semester or quarter-long, supervised TEFL practicum as an elective or independent study course. It might be a hassle to set up but would be worth it since it would go on your transcript. Otherwise, your chances of getting even a low-level position with a contracting company are slim because there are plenty of fully-qualified applicants (relevant MA, CELTA/valid TEFL cert, post-degree experience) able to fill jobs in this region.
By the way, since you're presently in China, what is your specific teaching experience? You only mentioned that it wasn't oral English. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:31 am Post subject: |
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For the vast majority of university positions they want 2-3 years of related teaching experience after:
MA in Applied Linguistics or ESL/EFL
or
BA + CELTA (some require a related BA and/or will accept another certificate that requires supervised teaching)
Online certificates are not accepted in the Gulf.
There are a few Saudi employers who want an MA and a CELTA, but they are in the minority.
VS |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| TeacherInChina wrote: |
| I have feared this. I have an online 100 hour course, but that seems irrelevant. I don't really fancy going in for a CELTA after I finish my MA, but it seems to be the way the tide is turning, correct me if im wrong. NO CELTA - no positions available in the Mid. E. |
Not all ME employers specify a CELTA; as you'll see in some job ads, an equivalent TEFL cert often suffices.
| and wrote: |
| Do you think if I racked up a year ot two in an EAP joint-venture or pre-sessional program that the CELTA could be waived ? Generally speaking I mean, as i know each region may be more or less strict than the next one. |
I don't know what that would involve, and you certainly don't want a prospective employer to have to guess either.
By the way, since you're presently in China, what is your specific teaching experience? You only mentioned that it wasn't oral English. |
I should have specified CELTA or TEFL, but yes I was hoping that given my experience and MA, the CELTA/TEFL might be waived. I will initially be looking at those places that do not require them.
My BA's are in the humanities and social sciences. I spent 3 years teaching middle school in Korea and 2 years teaching IELTS/TOEFL.
By joint ventures I mean UK universities that have campuses overseas, for example, Nottingham or Liverpool in China. Students are required to attend English for Academic Purposes (EAP) courses (Reading, Writing,Listening, Presenting etc.) to prepare/assist in their undergraduate courses.
I have heard of programs called the Northern Consortium of UK universities (NCUK) and Kaplan, both of which teach EAP related material to students who wish to enter select UK/Australian/US universities. Similar such programs or ESL departments exist in universities (AU/UK/US/CA) that have large percentage of overseas students.
My point being is if I attained such experience, would the CELTA/TEFL requirement be waived.
In Canada, for example, I think, but I could be wrong, that the MA in Applied Linguistics counts as an equivalency of sorts, of a TEFL qualification. |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
For the vast majority of university positions they want 2-3 years of related teaching experience after:
MA in Applied Linguistics or ESL/EFL
There are a few Saudi employers who want an MA and a CELTA, but they are in the minority.
VS |
This reflects my current position.
Am I to take it that those employers that do require the MA + CELTA/TEFL are the choice/reputable employers in the region ? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TeacherInChina wrote: |
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
For the vast majority of university positions they want 2-3 years of related teaching experience after:
MA in Applied Linguistics or ESL/EFL
There are a few Saudi employers who want an MA and a CELTA, but they are in the minority.
VS |
This reflects my current position.
Am I to take it that those employers that do require the MA + CELTA/TEFL are the choice/reputable employers in the region ? |
No, I wouldn't assume that at all. Most of the best employers in the Gulf do NOT require both. And there are crappy employers that DO require both.
One must never assume logic... 
VS |
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TeacherInChina
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| TeacherInChina wrote: |
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
For the vast majority of university positions they want 2-3 years of related teaching experience after:
MA in Applied Linguistics or ESL/EFL
There are a few Saudi employers who want an MA and a CELTA, but they are in the minority.
VS |
This reflects my current position.
Am I to take it that those employers that do require the MA + CELTA/TEFL are the choice/reputable employers in the region ? |
No, I wouldn't assume that at all. Most of the best employers in the Gulf do NOT require both. And there are crappy employers that DO require both.
One must never assume logic...
VS |
Right. Duly noted  So this is encouraging. The difficulty seems to be getting the desired position that will constitute the requisite experience requirement required to get said desired position |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Dear TeacherInChina,
"The difficulty seems to be getting the desired position that will constitute the requisite experience requirement required to get said desired position."
Ah, that's the catch:
"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed."
Regards,
John |
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