Job Discussion Forums

[kensensei]

I am an American male English teacher in a suburban factory community. My students are college-age, but are not academically/financially ready for universities. Nice group of young people, actually. I am well-known on campus because I am one of very few foreigners here, but in spite of my efforts to reach out to students in a social way, I get very little in terms of reciprocity.

All my students have my personal e-mail, I give it out at the beginning and end of each semester and I see them copying it in their notebooks. But I have recieved greetings from only 5 or 6 pupils over the semester. That's about 2% of my total students. I also make an effort to chat [either English or Mandarin] whenever I recognize a student on or off-campus. I can sense from their body language they are a little uncomfortable chatting informally with me. They look like I'm going to mark their grammar mistakes and make them repeat!

I understand that there is a maturity discrepancy between Chinese college students and their Western counterparts. But I think there are other issues. Perhaps there is a genuine fear of "standing out" and being different. Perhaps a classmate will see them fraternizing with me and accuse them of [heaven forbid!] taking an interest in Western things!
[I thought I left that kind of "different = wrong" thinking behind when I fled Japan 10 yrs ago!]

I should add that I am new to China and Mandarin language. It is possible that I have no idea how to establish personal relationships here. Perhaps that is why my efforts to be congenial are so often met with confusion and/or fear.

Can anyone tell me what everyone is afraid of?

[naturegirl321]

They are afraid to speak English with a native speaker, or an English teacher. Lots of people are afriad of foreign languages. Which is why you will find many foreigners in China who don't speak a word of Chinese!

[anthyp]

Yeah, I think they're just afraid of opening their mouths and exposing how poorly they speak English. I don't think they are too worried about what their classmates would say about their fraternizing with the foreigner. It's just that they aren't too self - confident and don't know how to get around it. But you seem to have the right attitude. Keep it up! Eventually they'll get over it.

[kev7161]

I talk with my students outside of class all the time. Truth be told, most of them use more english OUTSIDE of class than in. I think it is because we are more casual and it is more one-on-one. Of course, there are some that avoid me like the plague.

[struelle]

Put simply, I wouldn't teach English without also attempting a second language myself. I think TEFLers should have some proficiency in another language. While not needing to speak perfectly, acquiring elementary or intermediate level in another language can be extremely useful to teaching the native English tongue.

In the case of my learning Mandarin, the most important factor that parallels the students' learning English is the inherent risk in talking to a native speaker. No two ways about it, there is a risk involved, but successful learners take that risk and don't give up.

When I go out on the streets and practice Chinese, several things can and have happened.

(1) The natives often speak very quickly and use complex language, even if I don't understand.
(2) Many can't get over the fact that I'm attempting Chinese when I'm a total foreigner, so they make such a big deal over it. This perception takes precedence over the actual content of what we're talking about, so they don't always catch what I'm saying (even if it's accurate).
(3) Some over-correct small mistakes and/or laugh at them.
(4) I can feel inadequate and dumb for not being able to carry on a conversation when the topics get more complex, especially when people invite me to do stuff (happens a lot)

These are realities to deal with, and all of them come from talking to native speakers. (2) is especially a big stumbling block, but I don't let that stop me from practicing.

The conditions are a little different for Chinese students learning English here, but they still face risks in talking to us. To the detriment of low-level learners, we also speak fast and use complex expressions. Although we don't correct grammar mistakes much, they face a much bigger stumbling block in (4) above, compared to my situation.

I think the main problem is that, like my situation, they're clued in to what's going on socially but they face a linguistic barrier to express themselves. This can be immensely frustrating.

Steve

[kensensei]

I agree with the above comments that there is fear in taking on a new language. But as I said, I seem to get the same reaction whether I am speaking English or Mandarin. I really sense a general fear of foreigners. By our nature, we are like a spotlight and anyone standing nearby gets light shed on them for others to take notice of.

I can appreciate the odd student or two that takes time outside of class to practice / show off what they know. That's part of the relationship between teacher and student. But I find it difficult to convey that I am not here in China just for the scenery, but for the relationships as well. Moreover, I feel there is very little point in their studying the grammar and the vocabulary, if they never use the language for its most important purpose, i.e. meeting and communicating with people of other nations...

I am not complaining that people treat me as an outsider. I just think many locals overlook the fact that making friends with outsiders can have many benfits.

[Roger]

I believe, the fear thing is highly overdone by most. Why single out CHinese for "shyness" when this is a common enough feature? You can, on the other hand, safely say they do lack self-confidence, but that's nothing to do with the lingo they are supposed to speak; that's a by-product of their regimented and rigid upbringing. As the poster hinted, they might feel uncomfortable for standing taller than their peers!

SInce he even gave out his email address and found no one was using it, the explanation might be that they simply lack initiative.
I have been asked by hordes ofof this term to pose for a picture. Everybody promised me a copy. I had to give out my email address.
No picture every arrived. Not that I think the students were insincere. They are childish, forgettful and a little ...immature.
Don't make an elephant out of a molehill.

[anthyp]

I'm sure we all have experienced varying success in establishing personal relationships with our students.

I've been asked to pose for numerous photos, as well, and they've always gotten them to me sooner or later. More to the point, though, I haven't found their shyness or unwillingness to talk to me an insurmountable barrier in getting to know my students. Some of them are coming over to cook for me tonight, in fact.

I'm not saying there aren't some generalizations that maybe have meaning when talking about Chinese college students - but I think it's different for every person, since every person, after all, is different (your students included).

[Redfivestandingby]

Kensensei, I'm actually surprised by your experience. Most ft's here are hounded by students.

Here's a couple of comments and questions:

Are you in remote, rural, underdeveloped area?
Are you their first or one of the first foreign teachers there?
Are you considerably older than the students?
Do you have office hours? What's the attendence like?
Are you a mean, tough teacher?

Depending on where you are they may still have a more conservative and traditional idea about relationships between teacher and student.

As suggested by others, they could simply be uncomfortable with their English but I find it hard to believe that this would apply to so many students. Many of us know that we get approached by so many with just a smattering of English wanting to 'improve their oral English'.

Anyway, good luck and I hope it turns around for you. Meanwhile try to look for friendships outside of the academic environment if that's available to you.

[kensensei]

Hi Redfivestandingby:

Here's a quick reply:

Are you in remote, rural, underdeveloped area? No. just outside SH.
Are you their first or one of the first foreign teachers there? No, 2nd.
Are you considerably older than the students? No. I'm 32.
Do you have office hours? What's the attendence like? no office.
Are you a mean, tough teacher? Not mean or tough. There haven't been enough disciplinary problems to bring out my tough side yet.

I think your questions are important. I have asked myself the same questions because I find the situation so baffling.

I am not saying the students are lazy or bad. Just that there is like a tacit policy among students to keep conversations with their foreign instructors [including me] succinct and impersonal. I guess they feel it is "uncool" to chat with teachers. "Cool" students play basketball and computer games! For some reason the attempts to make small talk with students always leaves me with a cold empty feeling.

[phillipmccavety]

Probably they don't talk because they have nothing to say....in English!
Small talk can be difficult using a foreign language..there may be all sorts of stuff running through your head, but how to translate and speak it?
How's the weather? is a normal smalltalk subject in the West...maybe even in China, but try translating that in your head and spitting it out...apart from being boring, it is hard to continue. You would remember from your own experience, long silences, when smalltalking with strangers, or casual acquaintances.. I know there are sometimes I want to say something to Chinese friends, but then I remember I can't say that in Chinese..bugger!!..then, of course, by the time I have learned to say that in Chinese, the moment has passed.

[kensensei]

Once again:
I find the same reaction from my students REGARDLESS OF WHAT LANGUAGE I'M USING. Does anyone have an insight into this? Is it just a SH thing?

[yaco]

Chinese people are too loyal towards their native language.

This is a world wide phenomenon !

Chinese people even outside China will only speak another foreign language when forced to,

[rj]

[7969]