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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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 Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:21 am Post subject: The Value of Tests |
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Testing practices on mainland China, which many on the forum may know more than I about, have awed me today. Yet another time, I have heard local students get answers to their tests prior to their tests. I, now, wonder whether such a routine would be common mostly, sometimes, or just seldom.
The revelation in my classroom came after I bent the academic program rules and after I felt guilty of allowing my students see the questions they would have to provide essay style answers to on the day. My students� uniformed replies to the concerns over my dishonesty that I should not worry at all because their local teachers always supply them with not only the test questions but also with answers to their tests offered me a degree of comfort.
Nevertheless, I am in a state of anxiety for the expectations from my students and overall tests results. One thing is what students, the school or their parents, count on, another one is what the value of tests ought to be. |
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Denim-Maniac
Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1238
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:37 am Post subject: |
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My feeling is its incredibly common in everyday tests but incredibly rare in exams that actually count for anything ... like the gaokao for example. Ditto for CET-4 and CET-6 etc. I know observed classes are often rehearsed and answers and structure of the class is organised before the observation, and I think some placement tests and the like might be rehearsed too.
I would find it very hard to believe such an approach is taken in the more serious exams. This is only based on rather anecdotal experience of course.
Im very aware that simply copying a speech from the internet for a speech or composition competition is pretty much standard. Ive been led to believe that this is certainly not the case for more academic or more valued exams. |
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it'snotmyfault
Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Tests |
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| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| because their local teachers always supply them with not only the test questions but also with answers to their tests . |
Did they mention how much the local teacher charges for this?
I've heard similar stories from the students where I am, endless cheating and indifference from everyone involved. At worst the whole education system seems like a token gesture.
Most peoples future seems to be determined by what kind of connections they have and education is just going through the motions. At the end of it the well connected waste-of-space will get a good job and the hard working girl from the poor family will always just be getting by.
I don't see anything fair here, but that's the way it looks.
This last year I've heard of a few of the scams used to pass the TEM and CET exams. People (teachers, invigilators !!) selling the results, electronic earpieces with people reading the answers to students. Girls who look similar to each other sitting the exams for their friends and teachers turning a blind eye.
It's no wonder a lot of them struggle when they go abroad to study. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 8:36 am Post subject: |
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At worst the whole education system seems like a token gesture.
Most peoples future seems to be determined by what kind of connections they have and education is just going through the motions |
Yes, sorta; those that don't know the right people are being trained to work in factories. School is for them to learn a regimen: when to get up, when to be at the workplace, eat at this time....... |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I have worked in two vocational colleges, and I am aware of the teachers selling the answers to tests.
Another thing that bothers me about these schools is the internships.
All of my students spend two years studying, and then go work in a factory, hotel, or hospital for a year for no salary. They are still having to pay tuition during that year, and some of them even have to pay their own room and board at the factory.
The longer I am in China the more I pity the students. I really respect the ones that are still able to have some enthusiasm and ambition.
At my last school there were students majoring in golf, gardening, and hotel maintenance. I wonder what kind of return they are getting for their parents investment in education. |
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wonderingjoesmith
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 910
Location: Guangzhou
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Tests |
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| it'snotmyfault wrote: |
| wonderingjoesmith wrote: |
| because their local teachers always supply them with not only the test questions but also with answers to their tests . |
Did they mention how much the local teacher charges for this? |
I guess the motive is a survival rather than the fees. Students' performance may reflect teachers' or their superiors' evaluation. |
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Sarcastro
Joined: 18 Dec 2010
Posts: 89
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| rogerwilco wrote: |
All of my students spend two years studying, and then go work in a factory, hotel, or hospital for a year for no salary. They are still having to pay tuition during that year, and some of them even have to pay their own room and board at the factory. |
How is this much different than non-paid internships in the states? You still have to pay the tuition of the school that validates your time inturning. I spent a semester student teaching and I had to pay my school and all the rest of the fees to do so when I was effectively teaching for free. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Sarcastro wrote: |
| rogerwilco wrote: |
All of my students spend two years studying, and then go work in a factory, hotel, or hospital for a year for no salary. They are still having to pay tuition during that year, and some of them even have to pay their own room and board at the factory. |
How is this much different than non-paid internships in the states? You still have to pay the tuition of the school that validates your time inturning. I spent a semester student teaching and I had to pay my school and all the rest of the fees to do so when I was effectively teaching for free. |
You were being trained for a professional job.
My students are going to go do their internships in factories, hotels, and hospitals as laborers. The ones interning in hospitals will never be nurses, they will just do all the grunt work.
The golf and gardening majors at my last school were being trained for three years to be caddies or gardeners. In most other countries that would be paid on the job training. |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Years back at a four year university, I had on two occasions, students who mentioned that they were late or couldn't make an event because they were taking a test for a teacher. Some kind of continuing ed or English certificate course. The teacher apparently would give the student her ID to bring to the registrar, who was from the school and I'm guessing all of the other test takers were colleagues of the missing teacher, or students of those colleagues. Both times I made my students promise not to do such favors for their teachers anymore. My good deed.  Such things were apparently open secrets. That school also seemed to have less comradery than others where I have taught. Perhaps the less you know your colleagues, the easier to bend the rules. |
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kungfuman
Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1749
Location: In My Own Private Idaho
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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My first gig in China was at a Uni. During the first test it was incredible to watch the students openly cheat. There were 3 classes taking the same business exam and most were openly cheating. I caught and tossed out about 20 of them and gave them zeros.
Later that day I was brought into the dean's office along with the Australian dos. Turns out the students complained about me catching them cheating!
The worst part was I saw Chinese teachers helping them when I looked in the rear door window when I left the room and saw a Chinese teacher return notes to a student that I had taken away and issued a warning to her.
My view of the value of tests in China? About the same as a degree from ANY Chinese university - ZERO |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| I would find it very hard to believe such an approach is taken in the more serious exams. |
It does happen. One of my students bribed her way past the TEM 8. Also, heard a lot of students bribing the graduate entrance exam. Both important tests. |
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