Job Discussion Forums

the_p0et · Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 52

I just received an email from someone who is also based here in Calgary, AB Canada. They are Artisan International Inc., but I can't find them in our phone book and they don't seem to have a website that I can find. Has anyone heard of them?

He said:
Here listed below are the approximate salaries for
different hours per month :

1. 100 ( teaching hours per month): NT$52,000-55,000

2. 110 hours: NT$57,500-60,500

3. 120 hours : NT$63,000-67,000

4. 130 hours : NT$68,500-72,500

5. 140 hours : NT$76,000-80,000

Please be advised that you can easily increase your
earnings to NT $70,000 - $100,000 per month by
teaching private students, who are widely available
legal in Taiwan.

That's looking pretty good if we can be making up to NT $100,000 per month. I don't quite understand though. Does this sound like if we're working 100 teaching hours/month and add on privates, then it will go up to 70,000 - 100,000?

He also said that we'll need to apply for a 60-day "multiple" entry visa. This is sounding like a visa run to me...

It looks like that we can avoid paying any taxes by studying Mandarin, which will also extend our visa if we only have a College Diploma and TESL Cert like we have.

Thanks for any help.
Dan

monoxide · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 22

hey. i am also corresponding via email with Gordon. I was about to post a similar question. they haven't asked for any fees yet, but i also haven't gotten anything besides a visa application form from them. lets hope that someone has some additional info.

the one thing i am curious about related in general to the visas is that artisan international claims that once a contract has been signed, the teacher begins working and the school begins the process to change the visitor's visa into a working visa. they state that the teacher works and is paid during this process. is this legal? i'm sure that in s. korea its illegal to work without the working visa, but maybe there is an allowance for people with the intention of getting the visa to work during the process.

on a side note, how easy is it to find a job if you travel with a visitor's visa? i'm considering just going in a couple of weeks if i can get the visa setup quickly enough, but it'll be like $1600 usd for the round trip ticket and possibly another $1600 in penalties for changing my ticket's return date.

the following is the 2nd or 3rd email i got from Gordon. does anyone see anything odd about what is said?

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

Dear Readers,

If anything sounds too good to be true,......it probably is. Remember Murphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.

I know these are outdated cliche's, but moving to another country will involve DOZENS of unexpected issues.

I do not mean to sound negative, but earning $100,000NT per month is VERY difficult nowadays.

With taxes, typhoons, transportation, set-up costs, etc. you should feel proud if you can actually bring home 60K in the first few months.

Best wishes to all.

Sincerely,

Taylor
Texas/Taiwan

the_p0et · Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 52

Hey monoxide! I feel a little relieved that I'm not the only one dealing with Gordon. Are you also Canadian?

I'll give him a call sometime soon. What should I say to him?

He actually sent you a visa application? I just downloaded one from the www.taiwan-canada.org website. It looks like the 60-day single entry is $55 and the multiple-entry is $110. I don't know where he got $80 from.

I don't see why we would need the multiple-entry, unless we'll be forced to do visa runs.

I do like that they'll put us up in a hotel to recover from jet-lag for a week and will pay us while they're still applying for our work visa. You shouldn't need to get a return-trip ticket and change the dates. No one will give return-trip tickets that are a day past one-year anyway. I just purchaed a one-way ticket Seattle - Taipei - Hong Kong and I'm just not using the Taipei - Hong Kong portion. It cost me $800CND total. ($585USD).

Taylor, thanks for the cliche's... I've been thinking about those recently as well. I just hope everything goes well. I kind of have to leave now, since I purchased my ticket.

monoxide · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 22

after about four days of silence, Gordon got back to me with an email address of someone who they placed in a job.. i suppose i will send him a message just to see what kind of response i get. the problem is, its a hotmail account, and it could easily be operated by anyone. i think the only reason i'm still considering accepting their arrangements is that Gordon hasn't asked me for any money. i will send him another email asking about any fees that they may request from me at a later date.

i am not canadian, but apparently they are willing to help me out despite the fact that they deal almost exclusively with canadians.

the_p0et · Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 52

Hey Matt,

Gordon actually sent me a couple emails each within less then 24hrs of each other AND a phone call. I wasn't home so he just left a message saying he'll call sometime today. I'll try to meet him in person soon.

He also gave me the same email address as a reference. (James was it?)
I wrote James, with no response back yet.

I'm not too concered about sight-seeing with his contacts. I can always do that on my own if needed. I am wondering what kind of hotel we would be staying at for the 7 days. Scorpion-infested hole in the wall or a nice, clean accommodation to recover from jet-leg?

The one thing that is really making me confused is that on the taiwan embassy's website www.taiwan-canada.org, they say that the photo requirements for the visa is: "2 identical colored photos, 2" x 1.5" passport sized". This contradicts itself in that passport photos are not that size and no photo lab who I've spoken with in Canada know how to create these 2" x 1.5" photos for the visa. Any tips?

The good thing is that the visa only takes 1 day to process, but it can take up to a few days to get there and a couple days back. So in all you should have your visa back to you within a week or so regardless.

I'll email you about the flight.

I just really don't feel comfortable just taking off from this continent to Taiwan with no one picking me up at the airport and no where to stay and not knowing if or when I'll get a job. This way I can take the help from one of my two recruiters and if it really isn't what I'm after, just look for another one. The good thing is that they supposedly take you to several different schools, so you can pick the one that best suits you.

Dan

Artisan · Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Canada

Hi,

My name is Gordon Clark and my name is being bandied about. The person named monoxide has insinuated that one of our references may be a fraud. This aptly named individual posted his allegation BEFORE bothering to wait for a reply from our reference.

Let me assure all and sundry that we are true and that our references are in fact real people who we have placed in ESL positions overseas. To post on the WWW that we are " too good to be true " is ludacrous. Perhaps if these posters weren't hiding behind a puerile nom de web, they would actually think before writing such garbage. We offer a service to Canadians who would like the security of being met at the airport and of having a hotel for a few days without needing to sign a contract sight unseen. A middle path.

Artisan International is a federally registered company which deals with corporate Human Resources Development. As consultants, Artisan does not advertise.

As ESL recruiters, we advertise and screen applicants who apply to our ads. Applicants are short-listed, and those determined to be easily placed are offered jobs.

We are very pleased to announce that many qualified, professional and mature ESL Teachers have been successfully placed by Artisan International.

Furthermore, the number of qualified applicants continues to increase daily. We are thus excited about the future.

At present, we have positions in Taiwan and Korea available. To be qualified, teachers must possess a completed undergrad degree and have a flexible, mature attitude to teaching overseas.

Edited by Paladin

the_p0et · Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 52

I just read Gordon's post and feel I should write something. Gordon has been in contact with both myself and "monoxide". We have been emailing back and forth, plus a telephone conversation between Gordon and I. Gordon does seem like a very nice man and we had a good conversation. I know monoxide is very confused as am I. Gordon led us both to believe that there would not be any problems with finding work for us over in Taiwan, then all of a sudden we both receive an email saying that he was unable to find us a position in Taiwan and left it like that. It just seems a little odd to me. He also never mentioned there being any problems with my qualifications. I have my College Diploma and TESL Certification. Now he's saying that he won't accept anyone without an actual Undergradutate University Degree.

I guess Taiwan wasn't meant to be. I'll just hang around here in Canada.

Dan

monoxide · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 22

Gordon,

i have never talked to you on the phone. besides your own promises that jobs existed with your company, and a hotmail email address i had no idea if you were a valid company. if you had given me some way of verifying that you are a federally registered company, i would never have questioned the legitemacy of your comany. as it stands, i never said that you were advertising jobs that don't exist, or that you were telling me a line of garbage. so, while i will not apologize for being wary of traveling to another country to depend on someone i have never met or talked to on the phone, i do apologize if i let my fears get the better of me.

as i said, the only reference i recieved from you was a hotmail email address, which quite frankly can be owned by anyone. this is certainly not a reliable reference for the legitemacy of a company. to be completely honest, i felt a lot better after conferring with Dan, and was completely ready to accept your services when i arrive in taipei. but, i'm also not completely heartbroken and discouraged by the retraction of your services.

and, honestly, i think it would've been a wise move for you to go ahead and provide me with your services. i would have been just as vocal here about my good experience as i was about my uncertainty. so, unfortunately this thread will probably disappear, unless someone else starts looking for information on your company.

finally, even though you changed your mind and told me that i was unqualified for your services, i refuse to hold any ill will towards you. i cannot really vouch for your company, but i was willing to risk a month of my life and about 3000 dollars. i hope your 15 applicants a week continue, and your business does well for as long as you need it to.

-matt

p.s. i'm curious about what was edited by paladin...

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

52000 for 100 hours works out to 520 nt per hour, the low end of the scale for esl work. There is nothing special about that wage. In fact, it is really low. 140 hours per month and more is really pushing it from a sustainability perspective. That is also assuming you can work at a place with those sorts of hours available in the first place.

If you don't have a degree, you're going to find it very hard to get hired in a lot of places over here.

Dreams of 100000 per month for a newcomer with no degree are just dreams. Be prepared to make half that.

"Studying mandarin" is one of the ways people can extend their visas. Be aware that the authorities have begun to test these "students" from time to time. If you haven't been going to class, you could get kicked out. Also be aware that working without an arc is illegal.

The 60 day visa is the best visa to get. You've been advised correctly. You'll also need it for when you need to leave (every 6 months) for visa runs because you won't have an arc.

I don't care who he's registered with. A recruiter is a recruiter. I trusted a Canadian-based recruiter when I came here. Sure he may be on the up-and-up. But he's out of luck when his Taiwanese contacts over here pull a fast one on you.

Protect yourself. Stop trying to take work from the internet. Get here first.

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

Thanks for the comments, Taoyuan Steve.

ANY recruiter who promises ANY teacher 100K per month (in the first year, for sure) IS LYING.

IT JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN.

As I said before, if you clear 60K per month in your first year, you can be proud.

Trying to teach 10 or 12 hours per day--7 days a week--will WEAR YOU OUT. You will be unprepared for classes and students will know it. You will get a sore throat/flu. You might have a scooter accident while hurrying (perhaps in a mini-typhoon) to your next class. You might get so irritable that you yell at your students and get fired. What if SARS hits again? An earthquake....? Let's not even mention CHINA......SEE MY POINT?

Dear Artisan,

You wrote:Let me assure all and sundry that we are true and that our references are in fact real people who we have placed in ESL positions overseas. To post on the WWW that we are " too good to be true " is ludacrous. Perhaps if these posters weren't hiding behind a puerile nom de web, they would actually think before writing such garbage.

Why don't you try UNDER-promising and OVER-delivering???

Clint Taylor
Texas/Taiwan

Artisan · Joined: 15 Jun 2004 Posts: 3 Location: Canada

Hello All,

WE ARE NOT LIARS.

IF YOU READ WHAT WE OFFER BEFORE POSTING SLANDER ON THE INTERNET, YOU WOULD NOT APPEAR QUITE SO UNQUALIFIED TO TEACH ENGLISH.

WE OFFER TEACHERS A BALANCE BETWEEN SIGNING A CONTRACT SIGHT UNSEEN AND ARRIVING IN TAIWAN TO WALK THE STREETS IN SEARCH OR WORK.

THE $100,000 YOU ARE BANDYING ABOUT IS WHAT YOU MAY EARN TEACHING A SCHOOL SHIFT AND THEN TEACHING PRIVATES.

WE UNDERSTAND THE TYPE OF PREP NEEDED TO TEACH - I TAUGHT FOR 5 YEARS IN ASIA AND NEVER TAUGHT MORE THAN 36 HOURS PER WEEK - AND THUS SUGGEST TEACHERS STICK WITH THEIR $52,000 SALARY FROM THE SCHOOL FOR THE FIRST MONTH AT LEAST.

SO ALL OF YOU SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS MAY CONSIDER DOING YOUR JOB RATHER THAN POST MESSAGES INDICATING YOUR IGNORANCE. DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO? ARE YOU EMPLOYED?

AND TAYLOR, NO AMERICANS THANKS. YOU AND GEORGE W. SHOULD WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN CONCERNS. AS POINT OF FACT, WE PLACED A TEACHER FOR $60,000 IN APRIL - WHICH IS A HIGHER STARTING SALARY THAN WE ADVERTISE - SO WE DO OVER-DELIVER THANKS.

AND YES, ATTITUDE IS PART OF THE QUALIFICATION. THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN POSTING ARE NOT THE TYPES WHO MAKE SUCCESSFUL TEACHERS. YOU ARE MORE INTERESTED IN THE FREE HOTEL AND SIGHT SEEING.

WE ARE CONSIDERING POSTING YOUR RESUMES HERE. THEN WE CAN ASK IF ANYONE THINKS THE RESUMES ARE FRAUD. WE CAN MENTION THAT IS A HOTMAIL ACCOUNT, SO IT MAY BE FAKE. ANYTHING THAT QUESTIONS YOUR CREDIBILITY.

SO THAT IS THAT. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR ESL CAREERS.

monoxide · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 22

Gordon, I'm surprised by your post for a number of reasons:

1. You use all caps. Very unprofessional of you. It also proves that you are very much not net-savvy. Anyone who has spent time on forums would know that as soon as you start posting in all caps, people ignore you and you get labelled a flamer or a troll.

2. You start out the message "Hello All" as if you are not about to tell us all how unqualified we are.

3. You obviously did not proofread your post, which would have been prudent because you made at least one error.

4. You tell me I'm unqualified because I wondered if you are running a legitimate business? Thats just downright silly. If you were really interested in providing your services to me, you would do everything in your power to prove to me that you're actually legitimate instead of just telling me "its illegal to advertise positions that do not exist".

5. Honestly, our resumes are just as unreliable as your teacher with a hotmail account. Unless they are backed up by references. Both are good sources of information only if you trust the person providing it. Unfortunately it seems that neither of us did a good job proving our trustworthiness.

6. Did someone else write that last paragraph? Cause it kinda doesn't make sense. Especially the third and fourth sentences:

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

I think someone is working too many hours and getting all stressed-out---just like I mentioned in my most recent post.

Maybe it's time for a vacation.

Sincerely,

Taylor

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

In an earlier post, Mr. Clark wrote this:

Artisan International is a federally registered company which deals with corporate Human Resources Development. As consultants, Artisan does not advertise.

Could someone explain what this is:

http://www.tesall.com/JobBoard/index.pl?noframes;read=692

Taylor