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GMark
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 46
Location: China
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 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:43 am Post subject: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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Hey, a fellow teacher has this problem.
The FAO informs him the end dates on his residence permit and and foreign expert certificate don't match, and "it may not be able to be fixed". In other words, he might lose his job.
I did a search here, but didn't bring up anything. Has anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks in advance. |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like boss wants a convenient excuse to get rid of him, for whatever reason. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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| GMark wrote: |
Hey, a fellow teacher has this problem.
The FAO informs him the end dates on his residence permit and and foreign expert certificate don't match, and "it may not be able to be fixed". In other words, he might lose his job.
I did a search here, but didn't bring up anything. Has anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks in advance. |
If the school is refuseing to fix this then he should go down to the PSB office with both documents by himself. This will embarass the school greatly and force them to fix the problem (which is likely to be administrative in nature).
Both the FEC and the RP should correspond to the dates written on the employment contract. What has probably happened is that either SFEA, the PSB or the school have messed up. This problem will not be resolved until whoever made this mistake admits it and moves to fix it. That will not happen unless your friend forces it to happen and taking responsibility himself is the best way. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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| GMark wrote: |
Hey, a fellow teacher has this problem.
The FAO informs him the end dates on his residence permit and and foreign expert certificate don't match, and "it may not be able to be fixed". In other words, he might lose his job.
I did a search here, but didn't bring up anything. Has anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks in advance. |
before you start to worry too much, what are the ending dates of:
RP
FEC
contract |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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| Yeah, I just assumed that this guy was aking beacuse the RP is shorter than the FEC, but if it's the other way around then there's no problem. |
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GMark
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 46
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies.
The RP ends at the end of this month. The expert certificate ends in September (I think). The current contract ends this term, and there is already new contract signed for next year.
I thought it could be a ruse, or maybe the FAO trying to look like an important man when he 'solves' a non-existent problem. I've seen both during my time here. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| GMark wrote: |
I thought it could be a ruse, or maybe the FAO trying to look like an important man when he 'solves' a non-existent problem. I've seen both during my time here. |
They've screwed up their admin and need to fix this by speaking to SAFEA and the PSB. It can be fixed though. |
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GMark
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 46
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks GuestBob. However, at the moment they maintain it "can't be fixed".
The teacher likes it there, but is looking for a new job - just to be on the safe side. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| GMark wrote: |
Thanks GuestBob. However, at the moment they maintain it "can't be fixed".
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You can only apply for a new FEC when there are less thand 30 days left on your current document.
There are two solutions:
Solution 1: They cancel your guy's FEC and apply for a new one. Job done.
Solution 2: The laws regarding the duration of RPs recently changed - the shortest RP which can be issued is now 3 months (down from 6 months). Your FAO should apply for a three month RP under the existing FEC's validity and then apply for a 12 month FEC in September, which would then cover the new RP.
The school won't want to do these things though because:
1: They have never done this before.
2: It might cost them more money in certificate fees than whatever illegal solution they are currently hacking out (although this will cost your friend more, and possibly the employer more in the long run).
3: They have never done this before.
Ultimatley though, this can be fixed and if they don't want to fix it then you don't want to work for them. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| GMark wrote: |
| The RP ends at the end of this month. The expert certificate ends in September (I think). The current contract ends this term, and there is already new contract signed for next year.... |
are you sure this a problem?
the RP covers the almost the entire contract period, ending mid-july,
but the FEC runs a few months longer. already signed next year's
contract, so...get new RP before this one runs out, get new FEC in August.
only possible hiccup.......RP renewal guys may require the FEC to run
the entire contract.
or not. have your FAO call now to confirm. and tell FAO to get all
the dates to match this time. it's all gotta be done, and new RP applied
for, before the RP expires. |
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Voldermort
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 597
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: |
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The biggest problem I can see here is the PSB not issuing a new RP but rather an F visa, to tie over till the end of the contract.
That would mean leaving the country to start the whole Z visa process over again.
Like other posters have said. Get the FEC extended to the end of the new contract, then have the RP extended (1 year max). Come next year the same problem will arrise. |
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mwaltman
Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| GMark wrote: |
Hey, a fellow teacher has this problem.
The FAO informs him the end dates on his residence permit and and foreign expert certificate don't match, and "it may not be able to be fixed". In other words, he might lose his job.
I did a search here, but didn't bring up anything. Has anyone ever heard of this?
Thanks in advance. |
If the school is refuseing to fix this then he should go down to the PSB office with both documents by himself. This will embarass the school greatly and force them to fix the problem (which is likely to be administrative in nature).
Both the FEC and the RP should correspond to the dates written on the employment contract. What has probably happened is that either SFEA, the PSB or the school have messed up. This problem will not be resolved until whoever made this mistake admits it and moves to fix it. That will not happen unless your friend forces it to happen and taking responsibility himself is the best way. |
This is where you are so wrong. The police issue the resident permit based on the date of application of the R.P. itself, not on contract dates, or anything else.
Not only that, but to "embarass" the employer is pathetic. Of course they are "refuseing" to do this, as it's unnecessary and nobody in the PSB or Foreign Expert Bureau will do such a thing. Fact is, I doubt any sane PSB officer (the window, application accepting officer) would even listen to someone without the FAO present anyhow.
All-in-all, it wasn't a mistake, period. |
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Javelin of Radiance
Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 1187
Location: The West
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| Both the FEC and the RP should correspond to the dates written on the employment contract. |
Not true. Like the poster above said the contract date has nothing to do with the date on an RP. There's no problem if the dates are all different.
| GMark wrote: |
| I thought it could be a ruse, or maybe the FAO trying to look like an important man when he 'solves' a non-existent problem. I've seen both during my time here. |
If your friend has signed a new contract then the dates on the FEC and RP will change when they're renewed. It's a non existent problem that doesn't need a solution. Your friend could do what one poster mentioned above and ask for the dates on contract, FEC and RP to match next time but that probably isn't going to happen. The police have their own guidelines for what date to put on a document and that's how they're going to do it. As long as your friend is legally employed he has nothing to worry about. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Problem: RP and expert certificate dates don't match. |
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| Javelin of Radiance wrote: |
If your friend has signed a new contract then the dates on the FEC and RP will change when they're renewed. It's a non existent problem that doesn't need a solution. |
Yeah, it took a while for the issue to be fully described but doing an end-around on an FAO who doesn't care enough to bother themselves to cancel an FEC and apply for a new one isn't destroying a relationship - there is no relationship there to begin with and this course of action would be quickest way to get everything moving.
Like you say, and as I have described above, this is a non-existent problem. In other words, the FAO is creating this problem, so...
Doing things for yourself can be quite a good move under certain circumstances - the Entry/Exit PSB aren't to be feared and can actually be really helpful.
As long as the FAO is going to apply for a new FEC and get the old one cancelled then that's cool and there is no problem. But the issue seems to be that the FAO is claiming that there is a problem which "can't be fixed" because they have never had to handle an FEC change outside the 30 day renewal window.
Like I have said, this can be fixed and as you've said it's not a real problem.
Regarding the whole contract dates/FEC & RP thing - I'll give you that this is something which can vary from province to province. I am speaking from my own experience. I have known teachers to get FECs and RP which were slightly under a "12month" time block because the contract wasn't for that long (10 months is a favorite).
But I do agree that there is no problem if the dates are different, although I have never known them to be wildly out of step because the contract drives the FEC which drives the RP - in general terms.
I agree that being able to trust your employer and hoping that everything will be fine as long as you are legally employed is generally nice, however, there are plenty of people who have had to do random visa runs and pay fines because of their employer's incompetence. So it is a judgement call, and I am certainly not impressed with this employer's attitude. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: |
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also remember:
if staying at the same school (same province?), the FEC is not
cancelled and new one issued. the same booklet gets extended.
PSB does not issue FEC's. that's the foreign affairs bureau.
PSB issues new RP's, and they need to see the FEC in order to issue
the RP.
question is.......will PSB require the FEC to be valid for the duration of
the contract? you normally extend the FEC prior to applying for the
new RP. |
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