Job Discussion Forums

[princesss]

These schools have earned a lot of negative press on this website, but the debate often turns personal and angry. What I would like to here is which of the schools people worked at. I would also like to hear if people feel that all the schools in the EF Swara group are the same in terms of policies and management, or are some more problematic than others. Is Tanjung Duren any better or worse than Cengkareng for example?

I would be interested in hearing why exactly (please stick to facts) people disliked particular schools. In particular I'd like to hear about issues relating to hours, Saturdays, schedules, communication styles and the handling of documents. Please mention people's roles not their names. We don't want to be accused of slander.

[Puppets]

Hey

To be honest I know many people who have spent many happy years in the Swara Group and are perfectly happy to stay for many years to come.

I also know many people who quit after a few months because they couldn't stand the place and also people who have just done a year and either got a better job or travelled to another country.

The Swara Group give you a contract and it specifically states you may be required to work up to 34 Saturdays in your contract. You will be required to assist in Administration duties such as Placement Testing and will also be required to take part in the marketing side.

You will be paid 7.5 million a month in Bogor and 8.5 million in Jakarta for your first year and this will be increased slightly if you have a CELTA/TESOL or TEFL.

It depends what type of person you are, if you're happy go lucky and are happy to do anything then you'll have a great time. On the other hand if you're easily frustrated and get irritated by things easier then you're not going to enjoy the job as much.

There are definitely better paying schools than the Swara Group but then again the Swara Group does give you your flight money back and pay you on time. You have to leave a deposit to leave the country every time you want to leave and for the first month or two you will work on a Tourist Visa which is not the way a company should be operating.

The Swara Group schools all operate with the same books and same rules, with minor differences between branches.

You will have to work long days from time to time and be exhausted but there are other days where you will only have one class. Depending on how many teachers the school has, you may have fairly easy weeks but if a school is not so well staffed you maybe be teaching over 30 hours a week and spend over 40 hours a week at work. At least the overtime rate is reasonable so you will be rewarded for those hectic weeks.

I'm not here to praise or criticise the Swara Group, I will just say that if you just want a year away and aren't interested in saving money then it's worth considering. If you are more qualified to teach then there are companies that pay you more and even if you aren't money orientated, why work for 7.5 or 8 million a month when you can work for 12 to 15 million a month?

[princesss]

Thank you for your excellent post Puppets. I think it contains a lot of useful information for people to consider. I hope other people will contribute their views in the same vein. Has EF Swara varied any of its policies over time to meet criticisms?

[Puppets]

I think Swara has definitely improved over time but it isn't a perfect company.

Swara is always advertising for teachers which suggests while they keep many teachers, they lose many as well.

You only leave deposits if you leave the country now, you don't have to when you have a holiday in Indonesia.

You get paid on time, you'll probably get overtime, you'll definitely work Saturdays and if the marketing team requires you may very well work Sundays occasionally as well.

Admin duties require you to come into work earlier than you want to, this involves placement testing and other duties from 11.00 till 2.00. This work is not paid, as it's not teaching hours.

Admin may also be required on Saturdays too.

I think they have improved over the years no doubt about it and they are the biggest company in Indonesia, but does the biggest always mean you're the best? Just have a think about that.

[Atoms for Peace]

[princesss]

My two cents worth here is that it is completely unacceptable that a TEFL school would ever ask teachers to work Sundays when they are already working 6 days a week 36 weeks a year. I have never heard of any other school requiring something like this in any of the countries I've worked in.

It is good they don't get a deposit when you go on a holiday inside Indonesia. It is a sign that they might not be totally deaf to criticism. It is also good that they pay overtime for some extra work now. But not paying for hours worked doing placement tests sounds unfair. It isn't as if this company is poor. They have, what, 600 to 800 students in many of these branches? They are making a fortune.

I once spoke to a long-term EF Indonesia manager about recruitment. He told me that most of the job of an EF Indonesia manager is taken up by trying to find enough expats who are willing to work for the low wages. I also note that EF Swara does saturation marketing to get enough new teachers in. There is a link between the teacher dissatisfaction, the comparatively low wages and recruitment problems.

To me the answer seems simple. They need to raise wages higher so they make the job more attractive and get more interested teachers. Recruitment won't be so difficult for EF then. If they offered a minimum wage of, say, Rp 10 million a month, I think that would be a good move. They could get more teachers and give fairer schedules to their teachers (letting them enjoy a weekend for a change). But my bet is that greed is behind this policy- they resent paying a bit extra to overworked, overstressed EF Swara teachers.

I am in no way anti-EF. I have no agenda to damage them. But my honest impression is that EF Swara is demnanding too much of its tecahers and needs to improve conditions. The 6 day week is unusual in this industry, and it is matched with a low wage by Asian standards.

Thanks for all the comments on this thread so far. I appreciate the valuable information people are offering. I really think people want to hear about terms and conditions in making their decision.

Has anyone worked for EF Suarabaya? They seem to have a better reputation by far. How many weekends does EF Surabaya require you to work?

[Puppets]

To be honest most EF teachers who I have known are ex students who wanted to get away and travel.

These jobs allow them the freedom to live a different life away from routine, they can go out every night and drink, they can get up late in the mornings knowing they're not working till the afternoons.

They have a fairly free ride in the classroom and they don't consider it working.

For them every day is a holiday and I guess at that age they're not interested in saving money for the future, they just want to have fun.

I think if you're not interested in saving money for the future and just enjoying life then EF is fantastic, but if you're older and are looking to the future then there are better paid TEFL jobs out there that allow you to save money, work fewer hours and still enjoy yourselves.

Working TEFL jobs for whichever company is way better than the normal office job shall we say, but I think people can do better than EF.

[princesss]

I agree with most of what Puppets says. I certainly don't think that EF teachers have made a bad choice. They may have a better social and sex life in Southeast Asia than they have back home. It could make sense on a personal level, even if the money isn't fantastic. EF knows this too, which is why the market their schools to teachers using words like "adventure, travel and see the world". It is clever marketing.

On the other hand, working 35 Saturdays a year could easily interfere with your weekend fun too. That's why I think it is useful to know how many weekends EF teachers are asked to work. I have heard a lot of them are endlessly calling in sick on Saturdays! An EF that only asked you to work 12 weekends a year (other Jakarta EFs have had that policy in the past) might be more attractive than EF Swara.

[Puppets]

You're right Princess, for young people EF is a dream, far away from home, a license to do and act the way they like, it's a dream.

They do have extremely clever marketing, I think one advert said you'll only work till 1.00 on Saturdays so you'll have plenty of time to explore!

Have they seen the traffic in Jakarta or Bogor?

By the time you finish a class on a Saturday which is generally 4 hours long, you're basically shattered and either want to go home and chill for a bit or you'll just end up in a bar somewhere for the rest of the day!

Not every one works 30+ Saturdays a year, I guess it depends on staffing levels but many do Business class after Business class and before you know it you've taught nearly 20 Saturdays in a row!

Personally I believe that teaching 5 days a week is more than enough, you should have 2 days a week off.

In Indonesia there is a big demand for weekends classes as I guess people work in the week and don't fancy a class after work, so they give up their Saturday mornings for them.

[lapzod]

[Puppets]

I'm surprised at that Lapzod. Generally most schools will have several native teachers and maybe half will do in schools if they're willing to do it. They say you'll get early finishes but that's not always the case.

Many times native teachers have had to teach early in the mornings and then stay till 9.00 at night. They always say if you enjoy what you do then it's not working, I think that's true up to a point but if you're constantly working then it's going to tire you out.

I think if you work for schools like EF it depends on what your motivation is. If you're young and free and not interested in saving money and just want to have fun then it's a great place. If you decide to settle down then it's not a place where you can have a family on the salary you get, you can if you're the DOS maybe but even then you spend a lot of time working for the money.