Job Discussion Forums

[scot47]

A colleague here in saudi Arabia has been telling me about hos experiences at Bilkent. Horrible spoiled rich kids who want to do nothing and learn nothing. Tha was his comment.

Any seconders ? What about other universities in Turkey ?

[lucy k]

Well, maybe I wouldn't use the word "horrible", as with any case, there are some very nice students (usually the scholarship students), but I think what your colleague said isn't too far off. That seems to be the situation at most private universities. Public ones, from what I have heard, aren't as bad. I work at a private university and I find the students to be a bit immature, it's more like teaching high school (in the USA). The students aren't really willing to take responsibility for their own learning, and they aren't very motivated most of the time. Anyway, I do my best in the situation!

[dmb]

compared to students in the Gulf teaching students at a private university in Turkey is a dream

[richard ame]

Hi
Seems like I'm gonna get dragged into this one if Scott has got anything to do with it ,yes I work in a private university and before that I worked in a very large and overcrowded private high school and there the kids wer a nightmare and basically they had the teachers local and foreginers alike by the short and curlies (sorry about the spelling and grammar and puntuation errors ) However after 8 years of that torture the uni is basically a walk in the park the kids are just bigger versions of what I taught before in fact some come from my old school,they know me and they are aware I don't take any shit or prisoners, so incontrast life is a lot sweeter the classes are air conditioned ,16 students on average sometimes less than 10 I have to take attendance which is all a lot of them want and those who have come to learn something stay and participate the rest get out of my hair and let me teach,which makes anice change ,alot of what Lucy and DMB said I agree with its Education Scott but not as we know it ,tell it like it is and cut the crap !!!

[martha oral]

I have been at Bilkent for a year in their Academic English department and have not had any of the problems that I experienced working in private high schools for 8 years. It has been my experience that the majority of the students are hard working, and motivated (most of the time) and are generally a pretty terrific bunch.
Of course I am sure that things are very different in the prep. school - the intensive English Programme - but the gossip I hear from the students is that they are treated like high school students so why shouldn't they behave that way.
Bilkent is a good place to work. People are nice (most of them), there doesn't seem to be the same level of BS that I had to deal with in the high schools, the environment is good and I my students are terrific. It is all about attitude.
Turkey old timmer

[mindlink]

No, the students there aren't so bad. In fact, it's probably the only good thing about being there. Yes, they are motivated by their exams rather than through a genuine interest to learn the language, but we all have ulterior motives, don't we. I had great fun teaching them. Which kind of leads me onto the reason why I left. The way the teaching is done is soul-destroyingly boring. Students are motivated via the 'stick' approach (as are staff). Speaking is not assessed. They are tested every Monday and Friday (though they call it a 'quiz' to make it sound fun). You book them every session of every day (4 - 5 50 minutes lessons a day). When you are not doing that, you are giving them grammar and vocab gap-fill handouts. It's not teaching as we know it Jim. They do talk about teacher development, and courses are offered, but the practice doesn't at all fit in with how the teaching must take place in practice, considering the intensity of the courses (they finish a course/level in 8 weeks. When I say finish, I mean they can complete gap fill exercises).

All that would be all well and good if the social side was OK. However, you live on a campus (the flats are nice) about 25 minutes from Ankara city centre by the hourly(ish) bus. Sounds OK, but you are very isolated and there are a lot of couples there, with kids and that. Nothing wrong with that, but if you are single or just like to relax and unwind with friends, it can be, and is, difficult. There are many native speakers there but they all have there own lives (and fair play to them). When I arrived, there were a group of 5 of us who were single and wanted to unwind at the end of a day/week's work. Yes, we went into town, when time and buses allowed. However, when you are in the flats, the soundproofing is non-existent. No matter how civilised you may be, you will disturb your more settled neighbours. They will complain. Being university accommodation, they will become involved. You will feel pressure on you from all sides. Big brother is definitely watching you. After a meeting limiting the time that I could have friends round to my flat, last Saturday, security came and told me that I couldn't listen to music at all in my flat, at any time of the day. So, no TV, friends not allowed around, buses infrequent, no music, let's stare at walls and contemplate being in the middle of a campus with only a convenience store. One of my friends left after 8 weeks- it's no fun. Myself and another person left last weekend after 11 weeks. And I know two other new recruits, out of an initial total of 9 natives, who are thinking of going. It's maybe a good place to settle if you're already in Turkey with plans to stop there and have a life already there, but even then, it's a seriously boring place. So many people bitch about it on a day to day basis that that's depressing enough, without the fact that having a social life is frowned upon by your neighbours. If you want to go and do a good job and have some freedom to express yourself in the classroom, in fact if you want some freedom to express yourself at all, DON'T GO THERE. Go anywhere else in Turkey- it's a great place and the people are great.

[k2everest]

There are two English programmes at Bilkent: preparatory (hazirlik) and First Year English Programme (FYE) or Freshman programme.

The preperatory or hazirlik programme is, shall we say, difficult This does not stem from the fact that the students are rich (which most of them are) but from the way they are treated. They have an incredibly strict routine which is, in my opinion, counterproductive. Of the 20-25 hours a week they (and I) spend in class, probably no more than half of that is used productively. It would be better if the number of hours the students are required to attend was halved, but then that would of course require axing half the teachers and reducing fees! The problem is not with the students per se, but with the childish institutional manner in which the place is run and in which everyone is treated. This emanates from the Director (JoD, you know who!) and permeates every moment.

The workload is heavy, with 20-25 hours of teaching, weekly test-marking, tutorials, form-filling and shuffling, and numerous meetings (at least two a week) which are themselves little more than a charade, since real, constructive, open criticism is not possible. Lunch-breaks are a luxury not a right, which are frequently taken up by more meetings and tutorials. The contract stipulates that you are obliged to work upto 40 hours a week (20-25 hours teaching). Do not think that the '40 hours' are just a contractual formality, they are not, they do all they can to get every last minute of those 40 hours out of you.

The whole atmosphere surrounding preparatory/hazirlik is very negative, very conspiratorial and inquisitorial, and unnecessarily stressful. For a young, energetic, inexperienced teacher this might be a good place to start: to get some experience and get a real university on your CV. But for any teacher with some experience, creativity and enthusiasm, this place is demoralizing. Or, to put it even more forcefully, for anyone with some self-esteem the place is soul destroying.

You can if you wish do your DELTA at Bilkent, but it will take two years, and you then cannot leave for a further two years without a financial penalty. As of this year, MAs are now on offer to staff too.

All the above applies to the preparatory/hazirlik programme. The First Year English/Freshman programme is an entirely different matter. The programme is more flexible, teaching hours are less, students and teachers much more relaxed and motivated. However this is possibly changing too. This programme was originally completely independent of the prepartory/hazirlik programme, but since last year it has all been brought together under the aegis of Bilkent University School of English Language (BUSEL) and their director (you know who). So changes are afoot about which I am unable to comment on.

You need only a degree+CELTA or equivalent to work for the preparatory/hazirlik programme, for the First Year English/Freshman programme you need an MA.

For a single person the pay is good, for a couple (i.e. with only one person working) it is just, and only just, adequate. Bear in mind the inflation rate (c.20%), and your salary will ultimately evaporate. As a single person, you may save some money, but if supporting two people, it is very unlikely. The salary is adjusted to the rate of exchange, but NOT to inflation. Do not make the mistake of thinking that your salary will be adjusted to take inflation in to account: it WON'T. So, if the rate of exchange goes down (which it has), your relative costs will go up, since half of salaries are converted from USD to Turkish Lira, and inflation keeps, inexorably, putting the prices up.

The apartments are comfortable (not fantastic) and lovely and warm in the winter. The location is good too, for exploring the country, and if you are prudent with your money you can get to see virtually all of Turkey, in one way or another, in a year. Whether you like Bilkent's location (and its fairly peaceful atsmophere described in the previous message), half an hour from Ankara, or Ankara itself, is a matter of taste. Turkey is a great country to be in!

Good luck, I hope this helps

[Goforth]

Faculty Academic English (FAE) is separate from the Prep program but under the same draconian (BUSEL) management. You will hear it said that the Freshman/Academic Writing program at Bilkent is the best in Turkey. This is almost certainly true, but more an indictment of Bilkent’s competition than an accolade. It used to be that directors of Programs at Bilkent had direction. FAE certainly moves, but never forward and rarely in a straight line. It’s a kind of backwards-sideways administration, which struts to the tune of JoD. It’s nepotistic, cliquey and unprofessional. I say “unprofessional” (go steady here!), if you’d rather do business over beer & cakes at the on-Campus bar, you’ll go far. That’s where FAE keeps court and for the price of a Bud you’ll be in on all the things you really should not know. If you are seriously thinking about going to Bilkent especially to work in FAE, I’d suggest three or four things. Know that the moral tone rings to the pitch of an empty Bud bottle. Standards are by the liter, - not the pint. Professional development is as much a matter of the way you walk as the direction you’re walking in. And most sacred of all: it’s not what you drink but who is buying it that counts.

[shanghaijo]

Just wanted to nudge this info towards the top.

[FGT]

Many, many years ago I was headhunted to work at Bilkent after one year's teaching experience. I didn't take the job. Enough said?

[yeterya]

avoid bilkent at all costs!

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

I interviewed for Bilkent last year - it was a bizarre interview.

For the salary they were offering, I hope they got what they wanted - I guess I didn't make the cut.

Asked a lot of questions, though

[k2everest]

Just putting this message back to the top for those who have recently asked about Bilkent.

[Faustino]

I know more ex-Bilkenters than I care to mention and none of them would trade the job they have now for a chance to return there. I'd say there annual conference is worth attending, as many of the brightest lights of the Turkish ELT scene usually attend or present, but that would be my only reason for ever going there.

The head of the department observed me on my DELTA external observation though, and he seemed like a decent enough character.

[Rice Paddy Daddy]

I guess I'm lucky...

I interviewed with them a year ago and didn't do so well.

They asked me how I would teach some obscure grammar.

They phoned me back 30 minutes later or so to see how I'd teach it.

That was the base of the interview - how I'd teach an esoteric piece of grammar.

Anyways, it all worked out in the end and they didn't offer me the position.