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[NihonBound]

Konichiwa.

It's highly likely that I'll be making my first jaunt over to Japan sometime later this year. So with this in mind I thought I'd better at least start to learn some Japanese (although I know it's not necessary).

So, can anyone recommend a website or video series (youtube or whatever)? Or book (preferably with CD) that I can acquire? And what "easy" films might I try and find - stuff with fairly simple story-lines (not bothered if they are crap or not). I know a lot of Japanese films are pretty out there so the language is too difficult in most cases.

What does everybody else use to learn Japanese (and I'm talking about people not in Japan and with no 'access' to Japanese speakers)?

Also, what do other people think about learning Japanese? As I said before, I know it's not necessary, does anyone think it's worth it or not worth it? And why? Just out of interest. Thanks.......or should I say Arigato.

[fluffyhamster]

Some of the books that have stayed with me (usually literally LOL):

I was going to suggest Backhouse's The Japanese Language: An Introduction as a potentially useful primer, but it seems to be out of print LOL. Ah well...on with the more immediately practical study aids then! The following list goes from survival/quick-reference through grammar and courses and into literature and/or contextualized reading practice and finally kanji reference/memorization aids.

Langenscheidt Pocket Dictionary Japanese (good essential bilingual travel dictionary, and about the only one to allow the look-up of basic [Joyo] kanji by stroke count, so it can act as a limited kanji dictionary [and talking of kanji dictionaries, I quite like those edited by Halpern, but you don't really need them - good general dictionaries e.g. the Furigana ones by Kodansha should usually suffice]. Not too expensive either)

Hadamitzky & Spahn's Kanji & Kana (This should perhaps be below, between the Murray and the Miller, but learning at least the katakana can be a pressing matter, to be tackled ASAP after arrival. This book will quickly answer any questions about the orthography, stroke orders, and should help familiarize you with the kana, and the kanji and their basic compounds, easily enough).

[NB: I don't yet own but really like the look of this:
http://www.amazon.com/Start-Speaking-Japanese-Today-Online/dp/4990284852/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1371603443&sr=8-2&keywords=start+speaking+japanese+today

Then there's this recent offering, which has garnered loads of rave reviews on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Demystified-A-Self-Teaching-Guide/dp/0071477268/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t ]

Coscom's Essential Japanese Verbs:
http://www.coscom.co.jp/ebook/item_250vb.html

Senko K. Maynard's An Introduction to Japanese Grammar and Communication Strategies (covers some of the stuff in the first two volumes of Jorden, below, but of course not quite as thoroughly)

Jorden's Japanese: The Spoken Language (3 volumes) (A little dry for some, but very thorough and authentic)

Jay Rubin's Making Sense of Japanese: What the Textbooks Don't Tell You (not for the absolute beginner, but worth dipping into before you reach the intermediate plateau. Well-written and humorous. The author has translated a number of works)

Giles Murray's Breaking into Japanese Literature

Lam & Kaoru's Kanji from the Start

[For more explicitly componential~mnemonic approaches to and listings of kanji, perhaps try one or all of Foerster & Tamura's Kanji ABC, Henshall's A Guide to Remembering Japanese Characters, or Heisig's Remembering the Kanji (last is 2 volumes); then, there is the following forthcoming work: http://www.amazon.com/Kodansha-Kanji-Learners-Course-Step-/dp/1568365268/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371595960&sr=1-5&keywords=kodansha+kanji ]

Roy Andrew Miller's A Japanese Reader (but quite dated and pretty demanding). Also worth a look is O'Neill & Yanada's An Introduction to Written Japanese (whose choice of more Japanese than Hepburn romanization will come in/prove to not have quite the spelling exceptions of Hepburn when e.g. learning -te forms LOL)

You might like to get yourself an electronic dictionary if you're going to be in Japan a while. My old Seiko SR-M4000 is still going strong after a decade, and contains a whole range of reference works: the Kojien J-J dictionary with 230,000 entries, as well as a reverse-order version; a kanji dictionary with 6,355 characters and 45,000 compounds; the Genius J-E and E-J dictionaries; the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary and the Concise Oxford Thesaurus; a katakana dictionary; a "Dictionary of English for Unexpected Situations" (basically a bilingual phrasebook of functional conversational phrases); and various functions such as a calculator, search for all examples containing a word or words, or for parts thereof/wildcards etc.

I could dredge up some websites, but I think these are easy enough to find and check out. A search of earlier threads should unearth previous recommendations.

Some full movies on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd3M9Aws9Pg (Ringu (assuming you've not seen it already LOL))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPEf6WvTE3E (Kaosu, same director as Ringu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5LT_wV78MQ (original Waterboys, albeit divided into 10 parts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL44oj7uNZ4 (Zatoichi - the Takeshi Kitano version from 2003, in 13 parts)

[Pitarou]

[rtm]

[timothypfox]

Most people here that will befriend you will have an ulterior motive to learn English from you. That said, Japanese is useful to speak to the dry cleaning lady to set pick up times. It is also useful at a convenience store to ask to heat something up or ask for chopsticks instead of a fork. Ordering at a restaurant is important. They will always ask how many people, and non-smoking or smoking.

If you happen to be with a Japanese person at a restaurant you will be entirely ignored and the staff will only look at and address the Japanese speaker. Even if you order your dish clearly in Japanese they will look at the Japanese speaker and try to confirm your order.

Understanding money and the cost of things is extremely useful for any shopping. Learning Japanese will not help you at the drive thru at McDonalds as nobody understands Japanese over an intercom with even the slightest accent.

In general accent tolerance is much higher in English because so many non-native speakers speak the language. The same is not true of Japanese, so keep your frustration in check when ordering at a restaurant and the staff looks incomprehensibly at you when you clearly said "pizza."

However, learning Japanese will allow you to surprise people sometimes by starting up conversations with strangers. This can be useful to ask for directions or engage in small talk. But don't be surprised if younger people up to their 20s and a little older walk by and say hello or want to start chatting with you in English to practice their English.

For me, I studied for a while and got a very basic rudimentary conversation level and plateaud when I realized that after that level of conversation people wanted to try out their English. I have felt I should know more Japanese at my school if only to communicate better with the homeroom teachers. That said, I should only be speaking in English with my students.

Enough of my rambling....

Some good books I like for self-study or with a teacher are the Minna no Nihongo. You will need 2 books for each level. Get the main text book with hiragana, and kanji, and then get the grammar explanation book in English.

You might try Kanji Flashcards put out by White Rabbit Press. It is not fun to study Kanji and I absolutely hate doing it... Maybe since you are new you will have more patience than me...

[Pitarou]

[OneJoelFifty]

I'd recommend looking at apps if you have an iPhone or Android. Most of them have a free 'Lite' version for you to try out, and you can pay for the full one if you like it. There are loads, especially for memorising kanji.

I also use Anki on my PC, there's a popular set of 8,000 or so Japanese sentence cards. You'll need to know hiragana for it to be useful. To help with that, I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Basic-Japanese-Grammar/dp/4789004546. It can be quite complicated, but I find I can pick things up better if I have a good idea of why to say something, as well as how.

[NihonBound]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for all the responses and info etc.
I'll try *coughs* downl.......buying some of those books right away.

I managed to get hold of Pimsleur Japanese on audio.....I don't know if anyone has ever heard of this and has an opinion. I've listened to the first few lessons. I'm wondering how useful it will be.

Also, I found some podcasts/audio lessons - (Japanese101), but arrggghhhh. The "absolute beginner' lessons I listed to seemed might difficult. Like the first lesson was about cultural days and holidays, and the sentences they spoke weren't simple in the slightest - pretty long winded.

As a side note. It seems there are a lot of podcasts, learning cd's etc (not just in Japanese). that seem to be done by a woman only. I'm just concerned that I'll pick up more of a woman's accent if I keep repeating what she says trying to follow the accent What do you reckon?


Now to respond.........

[Pitarou]

[ExpatLuke]

Maybe this question deserves it's own topic, but what is it about Japan that attracts all the "weird" westerners? Not trying to be rude, just seriously curious. I've been reading the Japanese forums for a few months now as I consider the switch from Vietnam, and the number of people who post strange things on this forum is quite higher than in Vietnam. Is it the whole anime culture leaking over from the West?

[nightsintodreams]

Perhaps I've been desensitised to weirdness, but I can't see what's weird about anything anyone has written in this thread.

[ExpatLuke]

Nothing in particular was strikingly strange. It's just the language used and overall feel, I guess.

[RustyShackleford]

From my brief research into ESL outside of Japan, it appears every destination brings its own brand of weirdness.

Japan does bring Japanophiles who just want to be closer to their hobby of choice (guilty as charged);

China appears to be similar in that regard;

Korea brings those who want money or found Japan/China to be disappointing in some way;

Thailand tends to attract an older crowd who like having just enough money to buy booze and women;

Vietnam seems to bring those who want a Thai experience with a better paycheck and don't mind a slightly stricter government;

Cambodia just seems to bring out those who want to get the hell away from anything resembling authority.

I'm generalizing and not even touching upon the relationships issues and all that baggage that comes with it. The moral of the story is just that we're all special snowflakes cracked in our own unique ways.

[Pitarou]

[kpjf]