Job Discussion Forums

[SunShan]

Hi guys,

I have been accepted onto a CELTA course in the UK to start September and need to brush up on my grammar - as it was the only thing below standard in my application. They have recommended that I do the Cactus TEFL English Language Awareness course which costs £95 for a 90 day subscription online.

Is this a good idea or a waste of money?

I now have many grammar, tenses, teaching methodology books etc. but no focus of what to study?

Also, is 2 months enough time for me to realistically get up to par if I study about 30 hours a week? Looking on other threads, some people say don't worry about grammar and learn it the day before you teach but I prefer to be prepared.

[fluffyhamster]

Hello again SunShan. The Cactus ELA course looks OK, but I'm not sure if it is ultimately worth the money (and who knows, you might be able to zip through it fairly quickly, i.e. you might have better grammar and ELA than you think, or it might skim over a lot of stuff a bit too lightly for your liking).

What is it about your grammar books that is lacking, provides "no focus of what to study"? Ultimately, as an English teacher you have to get up on not just the terminology (within reason) but also the application of it or rather the usages of the thus-classified forms themselves, and there is no better or more thorough shortcut ultimately to sitting down with reasonably comprehensive grammar-usage guides such as Eastwood's Oxford Guide to English Grammar, or the COBUILD English Grammar*, and going through all the guidance ("rules") and examples. This way, you would be learning and reviewing practical terminology, learning some rules of thumb, and all while sifting and highlighting plentiful examples and contexts. And given certainly the time that you have available and seem willing to devote to learning, this wouldn't be too ambitious a proposal.

Still, sitting down with a grammar and grappling with it and pulling it apart is always a fairly daunting proposition, and it is natural to start wanting easier ways, shortcuts etc ("I'll come back to that when I actually need to refer to those points"). One such shortcut is to start with grammar practice books meant for students (with the proviso that these student exercise books are often lacking as adequate reference works, which brings us back to the second paragraph above): Murphy's Grammar in Use is often recommended, but I'll mention the COBUILD Student's Grammar (by Dave Willis) here, as it a quasi-abridgement of the earlier full-size grammar, and will thus provide a better springboard than the Murphy into "grammars proper".

If (in addition, more likely before, but possibly after) you're looking for more concise courses and formal treatments of terminology, and/or practice in parsing etc, then try any or all of the following resources:

The 'Short overview of English syntax based on the CGEL' here: http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/SIEG/otherstuff.html

Chalker & Weiner's Oxford Dictionary of English Grammar (an excellent one-stop resource, covering not just grammar but also phonetics, phonology, morphology, historical linguistics, discourse, etc etc)

Chambers Effective Grammar (a dinky little pocket-sized 220-page grammar co-written by one of the editors of the COBUILD Grammar Patterns mentioned below. Includes checklist summaries and exercises at the end of each chapter, to check one has grasped the concepts covered. Perhaps not complete enough though e.g. I can't find any mention of the existential (There...))

Leech et al's English Grammar for Today, Second edition (includes plenty of parsing)

Don't forget also that learner dictionaries can be very useful for grammar, and that there are free online versions of the OALD, the Longman, the Macmillan, the Cambridge, and the Merriam-Webster Learner's. (I wrote a comparative review of the book+CD editions a while back, a search for 'ALD' with me as author should unearth it).


*I consistently mention these two because they are arranged not in A-Z "quick access" lexical-entry form, but rather in progressively building ways that can be read through and studied. If push came to shove and I had to choose only one of the two, I'd go with the COBUILD, as it is very clear and functional, and was compiled from a lexicogrammatical and collocational perspective i.e. it gives a fuller range of lexis to fill out grammar structures than is sometimes the case, killing two bigger birds with one weightier stone. The thesis was that lexis that has the same structuring has very similar meaning, and this was borne out with the publication of the COBUILD Grammar Patterns: https://arts-ccr-002.bham.ac.uk/ccr/patgram/ . The Grammar doesn't have quite the Patterns' depth, but it certainly laid the foundations and paved the way for them, and of course fills in all the rest of the grammar not covered in the verb, noun and adjective patterns ).

[Dedicated]

SunShan,

I'm a CELTA trainer and frankly I wouldn't waste your money on the Cactus TEFL English Language Awareness course if you have already bought a lot of grammar books.

I would focus on the formation and use of tenses - I recommend Rosemary Aitken's "Teaching Tenses" which is great for lesson preparation.

Other useful books (if you haven't already bought them!) are :

J.Scrivener's " Learning Teaching" and J. Harmer's "The Practice of English Language Teaching" or "How to teach English".

There are two books available( almost in their entirety) free on-line on googlebooks :

"Grammar for Teachers" and "Success on your certificate Course in English Language Teaching".

Good luck! You definitely have the right attitude before the course.

[SunShan]

Hello again Fluffy (your replies are always detailed - much appreciated).

Since I was accepted onto the course I've been busy working and just returned from holiday. Essentially, I've done no preparation for the CELTA course at present.

Basically, my interview went well on all fronts apart from mistakes in grammar. The interviewer said they'd offer me a place as my degree is English Literature and Applied and Critical Linguistics (not TESOL related though), and my attitude seems good. Then I was advised to "brush up on grammar" (Cactus course was recommended).

In fairness my grammar knowledge is very basic - I had to research most of the answers for the application and made mistakes with tenses. Yet the interviewer said "don't become obsessed with grammar".

I feel as if I'm starting to learn grammar myself, so how the hell am I going to be teaching it straight away on the CELTA course in 2 months? Then again, I'm a native speaker so it can't be THAT hard to pick it up quickly? So I'm wondering if I should postpone the course until the start of next year or not?

The books I already have are:

Teaching Tenses by Rosemary Aitken
Learning Teaching by Jim Scrivener
Teaching English Grammar by Jim Scrivener
A Concise Grammar for English Language Teachers by Tony Penston
Grammar A Student's Guide by James R. Hurford
Rediscover Grammar (third edition) by David Crystal

Surely this is enough books. I think tenses and participles are the most important for me to learn now and then get stuck into intransitive verbs, disjuncts and prosody etc. etc.

[fluffyhamster]

I was about to say that you'd already got at least the Aitken and had done some sort of AL (you mentioned so in a previous thread). Hmmm, the Aitken and now the Scrivener (TEG) seem well-regarded on Amazon, and the Crystal is a "light-enough" read (I recall his somewhat similar Making Sense of EG seemed the more detailed and useful as an actual reference though - yup, 400 versus 256 pages). The Penston looks like it covers the terminology and parsing side pretty well, and the Hurford provides further discussion of key terms, and goes on forays into linguistics and exotic languages etc. So yeah, I think you've got more than enough books covering both the formal~theoretical and practical~functional side of things. And I think you will get more out of all those books than you will from the Cactus ELA (how will it be able to include as much). All you have to do now is make sure you read or have fully read them. I'd start with the Crystal, move on to the Penston (but don't get too caught up in tree diagramming etc), and then the Scrivener TEG (which'll help you contextualize/find example sentences and create activities), all the while keeping the Hurdford to one side as a back-up reference if needed. Then, the Scrivener LT and the Aitken will come as light relief, with the latter possibly helping to suggest further ways to analyze tense meanings and explain or correct when students have problems in this area. (I'll just throw out Lewis' The English Verb here, even though its more Dip than cert level. A search for Lewi* with me as author will produce a number of threads where you can decide how relevant [or not] his ideas~syntheses [in potted form] are).

I still think you need an actual grammar and usage guide though (to help you research teaching tasks during the CELTA, and obviously once working for real), and again, recommend the COBUILD Grammar (though you won't go too far wrong with Eastwood, or Swan's PEU, or Leech et al's A-Z, to name but three). I notice on Amazon that the COBUILD Grammar is under £10 new in a Third edition (with easier-on-the-eye design and typset), whilst Swan's PEU for example is now just under £30. A substantial difference in price when the quality is arguably more the other way around! I hope the COBUILD has kept John Sinclair's (the previous editor/founder's) old introductions is all.

[Denim-Maniac]

You don't need to postpone the course, and you should follow the course tutors advice and not get caught up too much in grammar.

A CELTA course (or similar courses) does not exist to teach you grammar, but rather introduce some simple methodology in how one teaches grammar. That is to say, an approach that shows how a teacher can make grammar relevant to their students and give them an opportunity to use grammar in a meaningful way.

There is a big difference between knowing grammar and knowing how to teach it. In many (perhaps most) teaching contexts, one doesn't walk into class and decide to tell the students about intransitive verbs, disjuncts and prosody .... reciting all you have learned from one of your grammar guides about the use of subordinate clauses isnt going to cut it.

You can learn everything there is to learn about superlatives, conditional clauses, and past perfect ... but knowing a method to teach it is far far more important I think. So dont get too caught up ... wood for the trees and all that.

[fluffyhamster]

I just had a thought - maybe the course tutors have a kickback arrangement with Cactus? And set tricky pre-course tasks (see Sun Shan's previous thread), so that each student flunks a few questions, and the tutors can tut and point the way to Cactus?

Seriously though, it would be nice if UCLES could actually find a way to funnel some of the CELTA fee into providing the sort of thing that Cactus does, rather than leaving the prepping trainee possibly an extra £100 more out of pocket for external grammar tuition.

As for wood for the trees, yes, there is more to teaching than grammar, and often you can take your pick of the terminology (or even leave it at the study door), but grammar is quite a broad subject, and can involve everything from phonemes to discourse. Take too much of it out of the equation and you are left with a pretty scraggly copse.

[SunShan]

It's an good point about my CELTA providers and Cactus. In the letter of acceptance it says 'contact us about a discount code'... Hmmmm

It'll be interesting to see what the pre-course task consists of once I pay the deposit!

Has anyone here done the CELTA with no teaching experience like me? Feeling quite daunted about looking incompetent as I fumble my way through a lesson...

[coledavis]

I am not advising for or against doing the course, but I would say that you do need to be as sure of your grammar before you start CELTA. Otherwise you start with a handicap. Essentially, CELTA is designed to help you teach English and assumes that you have a good grasp of grammar and spelling before you start.

If you find the books make you confident (e.g. you can do accompanying exercises), then fine. If you still feel weak, then the course may give you a helpful edge. (Can you afford the money? a consideration for most.)

[fluffyhamster]

I'm guessing that the majority of those who do the CELTA or similar have little or no prior language teaching experience*, and only start knuckling down to doing anything (rather than just thinking about anything) once they've paid the fee and have been presented with their pre-course preparation tasks. That you are considering investing two months into studying grammar (etc) will put you well ahead of the curve. And as Cole's said, whatever makes you more confident. Plus, you won't have as much free time once you are on the course, let alone teaching for a living (all you can do then is sort of half-prep, and make do. Experience will help you make do more effortlessly/less worriedly LOL. It won't however quite quench the little itch inside you for more raw knowledge, but that never really goes away to be honest!). So, confidence <=> knowledge <=> knowledge-ability <=> ideas and creativity LOL.

[santi84]

I also like to use the Azar grammar series, which is meant for learners and not teachers. I use it with all my grammar texts but it's nice to read her simple explanations intended for learners. It is one thing to know a grammatical concept and another thing entirely to explain it to someone else; I found it quite helpful on a basic level.



I also love collecting (hoarding?) grammar books

[Denim-Maniac]

[Sashadroogie]

I'm with the camp that says do not waste your money on an extra grammar course. You'll be fine on the Celta without it. Self-study, with the books that were recommended will be enough for you. For your grammar TP, you'll have enough time to bone up on whatever specific target language is in the lesson.

Most Celta trainees who complete the course do not have a comprehensive knowledge of English grammar - even the tense system. They have to continue their learning after they start their first job. Go into any staff room and ask about the difference between tense and aspect, and look at how many furtive pairs of eyes will study the floor. But most successful trainees do have the skills to further their own knowledge independently. So will you.

Best of luck to you.

[sparks]

I have to agree with the majority of posts on here. When I took my initial cert. course (SIT), I had about 10 months experience and hadn't read a single book on it outside of the student and teacher's books. If you have grasped even 1/4 of what was written in the books you said you've read, you'll most likely be well ahead of many of the other course participants. Really, paying for an online grammar-study course, should be marked as a scam

[SunShan]

I'd just like to say a big thanks to everyone who took their time and posted some sound advice here. I went ahead and completed the CELTA last Friday and even managed to get a grade B, so really chuffed as never taught before, and I was clearly flapping about grammar for no reason. I thoroughly recommend ILS English in Nottingham who delivered the course.

Also, those who are looking at doing the CELTA, don't be put off by scaremongers like I was. It was a lot of hard work, but a brilliant experience, and at the end of the day it's just 4 weeks - not a jail sentence.

Now I just need that oh so valuable experience. Thanks all, at least I'm up and running.