Job Discussion Forums

muffintop · Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803

I said earlier I thought it would be a crappy move to walk away from the first school at this point. However, for the difference in salary I would go full steam ahead with that crappy move provided it wouldn't bone me.

Talk to the first school. Tell them about your other offer. Try to get them to raise your salary or free you of any obligations if there are any at this point. This is somewhat of a dangerous game though as it's possible to end up with no job.

Banner41 · Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Posts: 656 Location: Shanghai

A calculus teacher will ALWAYS find a job in China.....pretty much any country.

NoBillyNO · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762

it'snotmyfault · Joined: 14 May 2012 Posts: 527

muffintop · Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 803

Bud Powell · Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736

"Business is business and to buy into that morals crap about a job offer or employment is just succumbing to manipulation."

And bad faith is bad faith. Agreement to a contract (no matter how that agreement is transmitted) is an acceptance of terms, something upon which GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES are based.

One must believe that the original employer entered into the agreement in good faith. The prospective employee who signs a contract and sends it to the employer is signaling that he, too, acts in good faith and believes and expects the terms will be honored.

Put the shoe on the other foot and be real about it: What if the OP were the second employer and agreed to hire someone at certain terms, only to inform the hiree that despite the fact that both parties came to an agreement, that agreement is now null and void because he has found someone who will work for less.

Be sure that there would be many cries of FOUL!

Many people cannot understand why FTs are regarded with distrust. Situations like this make it abundantly clear why many Chinese employers distrust FTs and believe that we have no morals.

A preemption: the rationalization that "this happens all the time" does not mitigate the situation because the first employer has not reneged.

Garphilius · Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 10

Thanks for all the input.

I have decided to take my chances and sign up with the other one as well. I decided this because I have been waiting for a very long time for the work permit from the first employer. Just in case (for some odd Chinese reason) the work permit gets declined in that province, I want to have a back up somewhere else. If I don't, then I am sitting on my thumb. I would have personally stayed with the first one but it has been over 2 months in talks with the employer and 4 weeks now since employer started the work permit process. And for the record, no criminal background check was required for applying for work permit with this job in Beijing.

Again, thanks for the input.

Big Worm · Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 171

Whatever. If the school could find a teacher for 5000 a month (8k less this time), you'd better believe they would take him. It's not personal, has nothing to do with morals, it's business. Two parties have conditionally agreed on a transaction. No legal documents have been signed (scanned and emailed is not legal, ask your psb), no legal transactions have occurred. Changing your mind is fine. It happens millions of times a day, not a big deal.

It's a job, not a prison sentence.

Move along.

Bud Powell · Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736

Non Sequitur · Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China

NoBillyNO · Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 1762

vikeologist · Joined: 07 Sep 2009 Posts: 600

There's a few interesting issues in this thread, as well as some things that it's impossible to know for sure.

a) If you 'break a contract' with an employer after they request the invitation letter, for an employer in a different province / city, there probably won't be any comeback. However, in the unlikely event that the original school decided to pursue the matter legally, one never knows/

Which brings us on to

b) probably for the above reason, but also to allow the school to save face, the OP should lie to them, and say they can't come to China because of a sick parent. I don't like lying, but this does seem to be the way that people in China like to do things. The original school may choose to believe the lie.

c) I think that it's reasonable to expect applicants to take into account the way that China works with regard to honouring commitments, but it's stretching it a bit to make it into a ethical issue. I can't help feeling that ethics are more applicable in the case of lawyers or doctors where there's much more riding on the following of a moral code.

The big wage difference probably does make a difference. I think most people try to act fairly towards others but this situation isn't like a mortal sin where if somebody lets down a school for any reason they will be condemned to the depths of hell.

I would expect teachers to abide by their commitments unless there was a significant reason not to. There's a difference between someone who makes a decision based on all the factors, and someone who's just a dishonest, unprofessional jerk. We certainly get a lot of the latter on the forum, but the first seems to be a fairer fit for the OP.

So OP - it would be much fairer if you didn't keep stringing along the original employer, and allowed them to start looking for another teacher. I don't think the delay in getting the invitation letter is unreasonable, or even a delay. There is a significant chance that the second (Beijing) employer is being dishonest (or naive) with their claim that they can get an invitation letter in a week. The 'first' employer is trusting you, and you're sort of trusting the second employer, so I can certainly understand why stringing the original employer along for the moment might be sensible.

chinatimes · Joined: 27 May 2012 Posts: 478

Morality only works when everyone is playing by the rules. That is why we have referees, judges, and umpires in sports.

Who is going to rule over these schools that advertise "must have valid Z visa and residence permit" when it is the school that is supposed to get the ball rolling and apply for it. They are willing to ride off the backs of other employers?

Housing is another issue, which I understand some people want to rent themself, but when rent is 2,000 or more and the school is only willing to give 1500 it makes you wonder about these morality issues.

1) Be a moral teacher
2) Don't like getting screwed, leave the country

Is this what the morality supporters are advocating?

Banner41 · Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Posts: 656 Location: Shanghai

Do things the Chinese way. Let all of your decisions be based solely on money. The have no problem taking the cheap option or moving on to where there is more money. Morals, doing the right thing, or just being nice is no where in their thought process when making a financial decision.

Who am I to judge someone on taking a job for significantly more money. Jealous? perhaps....My business? absolutely not. (another Chinese characteristic you can pick up!)

I would say, just let the other school know you cannot accept for reasons of your own. They can move on and so can you.