|
Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 557 Location: Bangkok, Thailand
|
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: Has Japan Become More Nationalistic? |
|
|
I've recently read several articles about the Osaka mayor that seemed to justify the sex slaves of World War II and that Abe is actually quite right wing in his politics. I've also heard that the new political party established by former Tokyo Governor Ishihara is quite right wing.
Has anyone who has lived here for the last decade noticed a difference in the attitudes of politicians and public? Are they really becoming more nationalistic and right wing?
If so, how will that impact life here for gaijin who are here long-term? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 1116 Location: Narita, Japan
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Congratulations. Your eyes have opened.
Hashimoto's statements are not unusual in what counts as political discourse in Japan. Prime Minister Abe himself issued a partial retraction on previous administrations' apologies to the "Comfort Women". Or take Ishihara, the former mayor of Tokyo, who often came out with statements like, "Chinese have criminal DNA." and kept being re-elected.
Nationalism runs strong and deep in the veins of the Japanese body politic. Japan has been carefully nurturing its uyoku groups for decades. Did you ever wonder why the famously polite, diplomatic Japanese were so notoriously cack-handed in international diplomacy? It's because they are so blinded by their own nationalist rhetoric. There's a lot more I could say about this....
Are things getting worse? Yes, and no. Japan's national character isn't changing. But Japan's circumstances are. The recent political swing rightwards is Japan's response to the financial gloom and loss of economic prestige. If there has been a change, it's that Japan's political leaders are now giving up the pretence that Japan is a liberal democracy.
This is likely to continue. Japan's national debt is out of control, and it will take years of financial repression to sort the mess out. Make no mistake: Abenomics is a strategy of desperation. It's a hell of a lot better than doing nothing, but nobody with any sense expects it herald a return to Japan's golden age of economic growth.
Should you be worried? Of course you should. But this is nothing new. Those in the know have been worrying about Japan for decades. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 Posts: 930
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm with Pitarou. My first thought on seeing the title of this thread was, "More nationalistic? is that possible?" |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
timothypfox
Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 492
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's more of the same. The political elite have been grooming Abe for PM since the 90s, and he spoke with the same mix of fiscal responsibility and nationalist fervor back then. People are keying in more to a more desperate need for fiscal management than anything, so Abe finally "came of age" and got his chance. An aging population will natural mean that the voices and votes of a more progressive worldly youth are being stifled. Japan doesn't ever really change - at least not that much... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 2142 Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've lived in Japan since 1995. Idiot politicians have been making stupid comments for as long as I've been here- nothing new there. Toru Hashimoto (Osaka mayor) is a complete tosser but unfortunately there are always people who will vote for someone like that. Ex-Tokyo governor Shintaro Ishihara made plenty of similarly stupid comments while he was in power. I see less of the right wing black vans and buses than I did 12 years ago, which is nice. I don't think that the populace as a whole has become more nationalistic, no. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
sicklyman
Joined: 02 Feb 2013 Posts: 930
|
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Apsara wrote: |
Ex-Tokyo governor Shintaro Ishihara. |
aahhhh natsukashiii - man, he was worse than Prince Philip for clangers. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
qwertyu2
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 93
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
timothypfox wrote: |
People are keying in more to a more desperate need for fiscal management than anything, so Abe finally "came of age" and got his chance. |
As another long-term ex-pat, I'm much more concerned about the economic situation than a rise in nationalism. As noted above, Japanese politicians have been saying stupid things for a very long time.
Quote: |
An aging population will natural mean that the voices and votes of a more progressive worldly youth are being stifled. Japan doesn't ever really change - at least not that much... |
Maybe I've grown too cynical, but I don't find Japanese youth to be all that "progressive" or "worldly." |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 1116 Location: Narita, Japan
|
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
qwertyu2 wrote: |
Maybe I've grown too cynical, but I don't find Japanese youth to be all that "progressive" or "worldly." |
I was thinking the same thing. Most young adults I see seem to live in a very small world. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Seeker of truth
Joined: 01 Sep 2005 Posts: 146
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Cool Teacher

Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 930 Location: Here, There and Everywhere! :D
|
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pitarou wrote: |
qwertyu2 wrote: |
Maybe I've grown too cynical, but I don't find Japanese youth to be all that "progressive" or "worldly." |
I was thinking the same thing. Most young adults I see seem to live in a very small world. |
Ha ha! But on the bright side they dont seem tvery much nationalistic either because ti seems like thiey dont think about it very much.  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 1116 Location: Narita, Japan
|
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cool Teacher wrote: |
Pitarou wrote: |
qwertyu2 wrote: |
Maybe I've grown too cynical, but I don't find Japanese youth to be all that "progressive" or "worldly." |
I was thinking the same thing. Most young adults I see seem to live in a very small world. |
Ha ha! But on the bright side they don't seem very much nationalistic either because it seems like they don't think about it very much.  |
Why think when you can just follow the group consensus?
I know you're just trying to make light of it, but I don't feel comforted. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 557 Location: Bangkok, Thailand
|
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pitarou wrote: |
Cool Teacher wrote: |
Pitarou wrote: |
qwertyu2 wrote: |
Maybe I've grown too cynical, but I don't find Japanese youth to be all that "progressive" or "worldly." |
I was thinking the same thing. Most young adults I see seem to live in a very small world. |
Ha ha! But on the bright side they don't seem very much nationalistic either because it seems like they don't think about it very much.  |
Why think when you can just follow the group consensus?
I know you're just trying to make light of it, but I don't feel comforted. |
I can't decide if the Japanese are nationalistic and racist or if it's just me. I mean, you could say we Americans are quite racist and yes there are race problems in the U.S. However, am I just projecting here? I mean, the Japanese are very tolerant in that they allow people like me - us - to come here and teach them english.
Then, I read a story about how the government paid for airline tickets for Brazilian-Japanese migrant auto-factory workers to return to Brazil with the condition that they would never return to Japan again.
Others have told me how Japanese look down on other Asians from neighboring Asian countries.
Are the Japanese really okay with foreigners settling long-term in Japan and making Japan home? Or are they anxious about foreigners coming to Japan and wanting to settle and have families and lives?
It seems from what I've read, the Japanese people do not want to establish an immigration program to help with the rapid demographic changes that are occuring. Is this because they are racist?
The Japanese seem to believe that they are unique, or uniquely unique, in terms of their culture. They don't want the blood lines polluted, or is that exaggeration?
Again, I'm just not sure what to make of the Japanese and their ideas about foreigners and how they perceive themselves in terms of the rest of the world. I understand that from the late 19th century and the end of the Meiji Period that Japan has opened up. Before that it was a closed country - a hermit kingdom. Maybe the effects of this are still a factor - a closed, island nation that doesn't like outsiders. But so is the UK and they seem fine with immigration - maybe excessive immigration, even. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009 Posts: 1116 Location: Narita, Japan
|
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Insofar as we can treat "the Japanese" as a single entity ...
Solar Strength wrote: |
I can't decide if the Japanese are nationalistic and racist or if it's just me. |
It's not just you.
Solar Strength wrote: |
I mean, the Japanese are very tolerant in that they allow people like me - us - to come here and teach them english. |
I'm surprised you view that as "tolerant". Where else are they going to get cheap graduates with native level English from? But even then, notice that they are almost always on revolving one year contracts, and the state school system designates them as Assistant Language Teachers.
Solar Strength wrote: |
Are the Japanese really okay with foreigners settling long-term in Japan and making Japan home? |
Not really, no. They keep us foreigners on a pretty tight leash. For instance, you are legally required to carry proof of your immigration status with you wherever you go, ready for police inspection. And, for those who live in the wrong area, or have the wrong look, random stop-checks are a fact of life. And it may not stop there: the police sometimes decide that your government issued gaijin card looks fake, and detain you until a Japanese person can come to vouch for you. (I should add that none of this has ever happened to me. I guess I fit "the profile" that they're comfortable with.)
Solar Strength wrote: |
Or are they anxious about foreigners coming to Japan and wanting to settle and have families and lives? |
Yes, they are.
Solar Strength wrote: |
It seems from what I've read, the Japanese people do not want to establish an immigration program to help with the rapid demographic changes that are occuring. Is this because they are racist? |
Yes, it is.
Don't get me wrong. By and large, they're pretty nice people. But they're so racist they don't even notice it.
Here's a random example, from the New York Times. An official uses nationalist rhetoric to explain why they won't accept foreign technical assistance in the Fukushima cleanup:
Quote: |
Japanese officials said adapting overseas technologies presented a particular challenge.
“Even if a method works overseas, the soil in Japan is different, for example,” said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director at the environment ministry, who is in charge of the Fukushima cleanup. “And if we have foreigners roaming around Fukushima, they might scare the old grandmas and granddads there.” |
(Of course, the real reason is that the foreign companies aren't greasing the right palms.)
Solar Strength wrote: |
The Japanese seem to believe that they are unique, or uniquely unique, in terms of their culture. |
Precisely. Notice that the official quoted above said Japanese soil is different. Not Fukshima's soil; Japanese soil.
Solar Strength wrote: |
They don't want the blood lines polluted, or is that exaggeration? |
I don't know whether they'd put their immigration policy in those terms, but the belief in bloodlines is very strong. For example, sperm / egg donation are pretty much outlawed, and the adoption of children from outside the extended family is very rare.
Solar Strength wrote: |
Maybe the effects of this are still a factor - a closed, island nation that doesn't like outsiders. |
They like to explain away their peculiarities by saying, "We're an island nation." and, yes, as a Brit I find that pretty odd.
Solar Strength wrote: |
But so is the UK and they seem fine with immigration - maybe excessive immigration, even. |
"Excessive" is in the eyes of the beholder, and the UK is hardly the migrants paradise that the reactionary right-wing tabloids like to depict it as, but the fact remains that immigration is the only thing preserving the UK's economically healthy demographic profile. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Canuck_in_Japan
Joined: 17 Jun 2013 Posts: 1
|
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Saw the black vans today! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
nightsintodreams
Joined: 18 May 2010 Posts: 558
|
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hmmm...I'm also not sure about how I feel regarding nationalism in Japan. It definately does exist and is a problem but to what extent?
When I think of my grandparents and some of the nationalistic things they come out with at times, I think it's comparable to the way most Japanese people think today. Everything takes time, Im sure in another two or three generations Japan will change too.
Look on the bright side, in Japan I'd say there is more ignorant racism than hateful racism like we have in the west.
Regarding those black vans, can you actually understand Japanese? Have you ever heard them say anything negative about foreigners living in Japan? When I first came to Japan I remember what people said about these vans and whenever I saw them I thought "racists!" without understanding much of what they were saying. I've never actually heard them say anything negative about foreigners living in Japan. The last few I've seen we're actually talking about standing up to North Korea as well not giving up the Senkalu islands.
I've even walked straight past them with a Japanese gf once and they paid me no attention whatsoever. Now think of the BNP in the UK, how would they have reacted if a Pakistani or Muslim looking guy had walked past them with a white girl.
Racism does exist in Japan but I think as whities who have never experienced any real racism we exaggerate it a little too much. Lets be honest, none of us know what it's like for a Muslim guy living in a white area of Devon or Cornwall (white countryside areas of the UK), but I'd probably guess he faces as much or more racism that whities living in Japan do. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling. Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|