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Crime & violence on the rise...how do you cope with it?
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm With Stupid wrote:

I've always found the claim that HCMC and Hanoi are safe cities to be laughable, even ignoring the traffic. If I was to count, I'd say that well over 90% of the people I've known who've lived here for more than about 6 months have been the victims of some form of crime (excluding rip-offs and general sexual harassment).


Is that because there's more crime here or because your skin color makes you a target? In my home country's hometown I'm generally like everyone else, so I don't become a target unless you do something careless, like leaving money out for people to see. Here, just walking down the street you can become a target.
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spycatcher reincarnated



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 20 years in HCM City I have had the following incidents:

Shoes stolen by shoeshine boy- about 19 years ago
Sunglasses stolen by one legged man- about 19 years ago
Attempt at stealing my watch- about 19 years ago
Bag snatched from my motorbike- about 18 years ago
House burgled- about 15 years ago

No incidents, that I recall, in the last 15 years, but I admit that I am getting old and don't put myself in positions where I am such an easy target these days.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sunglasses stolen by one legged man- about 19 years ago


Just out of curiosity, how did the one legged man get away? He must have had a pretty good process worked out.

Yes, totally agree, the biggest factor is being a target. Just notice when you are in the backpackers area or the CBD how many people come on to you and compare it with the outlying areas. If I am down there, I might get 20 come ons in an evening, compared with one a week elsewhere. Of course, the folks who specialize in stealing from the foreigners especially circulate in those areas, they do not waste their time looking for us elsewhere. It's all about numbers.
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Ramen



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure viets can smell newbies/tourists a mile away, because I can.

1. walking around with a camera slung around the neck
2. walking around the city mindlessly.
3. asking for price in English and for common necessities
4. buying things without bargaining
5. constantly smiling at locals
6. ........

Easy pickings.
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cb400



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 274
Location: Vientiane, Laos

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm sure viets can smell newbies/tourists a mile away, because I can.


The list is good, funny how many toursit have a Sony shop around their neck. But then again, is it a bad thing? I mean Vietnam wants tourist dollars so the have to accept the byproduct of the actual tourist and try to proved a safety net for them.

I think one difference is what Vietnamese and the rest of us actually consider a crime. I think 99% of the population don't think running a red light and hitting someone is a crime, or swiping a little more cash from some tourist than they should... its just something that happens....

'don't blame the robber but the person who left the window open'.. old Vietnamese proverb.
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RustyShackleford



Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather irritating about the camera bit. I've done hell of a lot of street photo in Japan and Korea and just the constant interruption of my already aware snapping by well-intentioned locals or expat residents and that godawful "swish" sound/gesture makes me keep my camera indoors far more than the actual worry of theft.
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LettersAthruZ



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb400 wrote:
Quote:
I'm sure viets can smell newbies/tourists a mile away, because I can.


The list is good, funny how many toursit have a Sony shop around their neck. But then again, is it a bad thing? I mean Vietnam wants tourist dollars so the have to accept the byproduct of the actual tourist and try to proved a safety net for them.

I think one difference is what Vietnamese and the rest of us actually consider a crime. I think 99% of the population don't think running a red light and hitting someone is a crime, or swiping a little more cash from some tourist than they should... its just something that happens....

'don't blame the robber but the person who left the window open'.. old Vietnamese proverb.


Loved that list, Ramen!

Excellent point, CB.....it is just bizarre the vast gulf between how the Vietnamese view things (criticizing the Government is extremely criminal and shall be punished while theft is as standard as going out for a bowl of pho) verses how Westerners view things (it is your obligation to question your Government and theft is morally evil and repugnant).

I remember once time I was teaching a private tutor student that i had at the small school that I used to be employed by (it was basically some lady's house, but it paid me well) and the guy who was watching the bikes came in for FOUR SECONDS TWO METRES AWAY FROM THE FRONT DOOR INSIDE THE SCHOOL to get a refill from the water cooler and some guy comes outta nowhere SPRINTING AT FULL BORE and jumps on the kid's bike and it's gone!

I ran after him, but it was no use and the kid was just like - oh, no....that is too bad. Oh well Sad

THAT entire attitude just stunned me - the Vietnamese act like theft is an everyday occurance and it's nothing worse than getting a flat tyre!!! They don't even get furiously pissed off about having their stuff stolen!

Honestly?? I really don't feel that this is a sign of a healthy society.....
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spycatcher reincarnated



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is only illegal to run a red light if there is a policeman watching.
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Ramen



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was teaching corporate executives, I met a Vietnamese woman whose father was the deputy police chief of a resort city. She invited me to her family home during Tet holiday. Needless to say, their living room wall was plastered with the communist awards and citations. Over dinner, we had a short discussion about the crimes in Vietnam. In short, as far as petty theft and minor infraction goes, what the man told me concurred with CB400's old Vietnamese proverb:

Quote:
'don't blame the robber but the person who left the window open'


He also told me that they have Cong An (secret police in civilian clothes) roaming the busy streets, especially around streets bustling with tourists. In most cases, they know exactly who the culprits are. But they aren't interested in petty criminals as sometimes they can become the police and Cong An's informants if and when serious crimes are committed. As a result, they will almost always apprehend the culprits who commit serious crimes despite what appears to be massive chaos in the system, especially crimes against tourist to protect their interest in tourism.

So there you go folks, keep your things locked up and secured at all times. If you get it stolen or ripped off, don't expect the police to help you.
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Mushroom Druid



Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a fella, good old mate of mine, Dave Carlson, who had an expensive telephoto camera and put it on a tri pod at the roundabout near the Ben Thanh market. He set up the camera and walked away 3 steps to check something, and

voila,

Camera gone. Snatched by a pillion rider.

They were probably following him, who knows.
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Mushroom Druid



Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for statistic, an ever increasing number of tourists have been coming to Vietnam year after year, even though there is a global slowdown in many areas.

Then why is this?

Working Lives Vietnam


Huong works as a 'PG' or 'promotion girl', a job that is often ad hoc and temporary, promoting and selling new products in supermarkets and on Vietnam's city streets.

Although unskilled work, it is increasingly done by recent university graduates, who are now struggling to find good jobs in Vietnam.

At university Huong, 23, trained in hotel management but now can't find work in the sector.

Instead she found work in promotional sales. It pays reasonably when she actually works, equivalent to around $300 per month, but its temporary nature means Huong is often only working for half a month at a time.

The graduate comes from a small rural community 320 kilometers (200 miles) north east of Ho Chi Minh City, where her parents are labourers.

She is the first person from her family ever to go to university. She hoped her degree in hotel management would lead to a good job, but she has seen the job opportunities dry up.

"When I started studying this field, it was a very hot area for work," she says. "There was a shortage of staff. But when I finished my study, the economy was already plunging and the demand for this type of job is not there anymore."

It is a problem she has seen across her peer group.

"There were about 300 students with me during my university years. But now, maybe only one third of us are working in the areas that we studied."

Her parents want Huong to return home to the village far from the bustle of Ho Chi Minh, and she would enjoy an easier life there.

But there would be something important missing, she says.

"Anyone after graduation, we're the same, we want to stay on in this city and find a suitable job for us, to challenge ourselves."

Source http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23497562
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Ramen



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for statistic, an ever increasing number of tourists have been coming to Vietnam year after year, even though there is a global slowdown in many areas.

Then why is this?


I suspect the same is happening in Vietnam as the US. The US is producing to many college graduates and not enough jobs to keep up. As well, there are just too many students studying liberal arts instead of something useful while racking up massive student loan debt. I read somewhere that nowadays, average college student would graduate with 30k-40k dollars debt. Now, with flood of liberal arts degree, what would you do to payoff your student loan? lucky for the US citizens, they can go overseas to TEACH ENGLISH. But unfortunately, for most of these young viet college graduates, their employment market is limited only in their country while most good paying jobs are only offered to selected few in society.
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vabeckele



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramen wrote:
Quote:
As for statistic, an ever increasing number of tourists have been coming to Vietnam year after year, even though there is a global slowdown in many areas.

Then why is this?


I suspect the same is happening in Vietnam as the US. The US is producing to many college graduates and not enough jobs to keep up. As well, there are just too many students studying liberal arts instead of something useful while racking up massive student loan debt. I read somewhere that nowadays, average college student would graduate with 30k-40k dollars debt. Now, with flood of liberal arts degree, what would you do to payoff your student loan? lucky for the US citizens, they can go overseas to TEACH ENGLISH. But unfortunately, for most of these young viet college graduates, their employment market is limited only in their country. And most good paying jobs are only offered to selected few in society.


That, and the fact many have to pay to get these positions. When I was at the Banking Academy of Hanoi students complained of having to pay 5-10k US to just get their foot into a banking position. Eduction is the same, I was asked to pay 100 million to get a job worth at lot less than I would do normally, I declined as because I'm no Viet there is no way I am going to be shuffled to the lucrative 'projects' that others would be getting - The system is rotten from the inside out.
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Threequalseven



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExpatLuke wrote:
Easy solution: Don't teach or live in Hanoi or HCMC... Living in Danang is one of the safest places I have ever been.

What do you think of the current living situation in Da Nang? I'll be visiting Vietnam (just HCMC) for the first time this December with my girlfriend, and we will be returning in February for work. HCMC is attractive because it's the biggest city and we'll almost certainly find work. We have a few friends living there, too. However, we've always lived in smaller cities, and from what I can tell from Google Images anyway Da Nang looks pretty nice. What would you say to a couple with TEFLs and a year experience each? (Specifically about employment, pollution, things do to, eat, etc.) Would it be an "easy solution" for us?
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ExpatLuke



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danang in my opinion is one of the best places to live in Vietnam. It's hard to find what will be a good fit for you specifically until you try a few places. I hated Hanoi but love Danang. However, I've also met a few people who weren't happy in Danang. Maybe it would be easier if I listed some of the pros and cons of living here.

Pros:
One of the cleanest cities in Vietnam
Big modern roads
Some of the most beautiful beaches in SE Asia
Good central location for travel (Cham Islands, Hue, Hoi An easily accessible)
Plenty of entertainment and nightlife
Cheaper than the bigger cities
Better behaved students

Cons:
Very difficult to find work unless you're in the town itself going door to door
Most of the work is part time, so you'll have to work at several places if you want full time hours
There's a lot of competition for the best jobs
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