Job Discussion Forums

[Sashadroogie]

Reeks of it... sniff sniff

[ExpatLuke]

Back in the US, I worked for a school that would only hire qualified language teachers, meaning they had a degree in TESOL, whether it was undergrad or a MA. In most of our home counties, I assume it's the same. It's only when you go abroad that you start getting these discussions on what makes a better teacher between someone who has studied vs someone who does it as hobby/afterthought. I know most schools in the US wouldn't care if you had 10 years of "teaching" EFL if you didn't have the degree to back it up.

Of course, when you're trying to run a school overseas your options are much more limited. You can't get the best. You can't demand someone with a degree who graduated at the top of their class, unless you're going to pay a lot more for them. Which is why in most cases the people hiring just take what they can get, those that pass the minimum legal requirements. You can pay them less money, and they won't expect as much.

[Ramen]

[I'm With Stupid]

[skarper]

One if the key things they want to see in DELTA level observations is clear language input. The students have to know what new language they learned during that lesson. Obviously - you might have one or two lessons in a week for review or practice and that might include 'impromptu' conversation. However, in the UK students can get all the impromptu conversation they want by chatting in breaks or socialising with other students.

I still wouldn't/won't have any truck with 'freetalking' as even though it's popular and might even prove effective at activating buried language learned in school it is too boring and stressful for the teacher.

Typically - teacher proposes a topic -

EG

Teacher - Are you interested in sport?

Student 1 - I very like football - other students 'I'm agree.'

Any interesting disagreements will normally by smoothed over in the interests of 'harmony' [in Korea especially.]

If you have students able to really engage in such discussion the risk is one loudmouthed arrogant type will take the teacher to task on every topic and ignore the other students.

When (once or twice) I gave up on a class and allowed 'freetalking' I just sat at the back and 'listened' refusing to join in. They got on fine without me.

All in all - it's a very poor use of class time to chat aimlessly and hope something useful emerges [Dogme anyone? - google it]. Now and then you might strike gold but mostly you'll end up bored and waste the students time and money. Lessons are relatively cheap in Japan and Korea but rather expensive here. Ridiculously so in the UK/US/NZ/OZ etc.

[ExpatLuke]

The 100% pair/group work lessons that were being pushed a lot 5-10 years ago are falling out of favor. A few years back you'd see this big push for classrooms with no desks, and a lot of open space for the students to be able to get up, walk around, and converse easily. Freetalking and unstructured conversations were very popular.

However, in more recent years studies have shown that's a largely ineffective way to learn a language. Students reach a peak that's hard to get passed when that's the only type of teaching they have. Now you see instructors teaching you to do those kinds of lessons, but mix the other skills in as well.

A classroom with no desks might sound like a great idea in theory. But in practice it will leave the students weaker than those that have been regularly taught all 4 skills in engaging and creative ways.

[skarper]

One thing I think is obvious is that there is no easy and dogmatic answer to the myriad problems people face when learning a language.

No desks and some drama/roleplay is great sometimes...but you need a balanced mix of activities and approaches.

Pair and group work is and will remain the staple TEFL approach because it does work very well for the most part. It's not as easy to set up and monitor effectively as some might think especially in a monolingual class of lazy cheating students....hence many teachers under use it and resort to simpler methods.

However, the teacher standing up and 'presenting' might as well be mooning the students for all the good it does. Even a high level class that have a chance to understand such a lecture would be better served by reading about the topic/points presented. But this is by far the easiest way to get through an hour of class time so remains popular. Students like it too as it allows them to drift off and do nothing while still being able to say they went to class.

I used to be very intrigued by task based learning but have never found a class motivated enough to do their part. It's how I would like to a language but what you get is 'learn the dialogue and repeat after me' ad nauseum.

Working with children I find games are most effective. The same goes for adults but some feel they are not serious and will not participate fully.

Language learning games are also quite difficult to design and run and very often what is passed off as a language learning game is in fact nothing of the kind.

[vabeckele]

I was wondering what rewards there are for those that teach obligatory language courses for the immigrants that are unemployed and refugees? And what is the pay like?

As a Brit I relocated to another country and due to a bout of unemployment, by law I had to do a 3 month language course. There were a lot of people with problems on these courses - Me included, but not to the extent of those with very different backgrounds than my own. When I consider the problems that may be involved in refugees and the training, and can I say assimilation, of a group or individuals into a society like the United States and the UK the teacher is right at the front line - I take my hat off to these people. Some of these refugees are not even permitted to enter mainstream society for a while because of the terror they have seen (or perhaps caused).

I hear, at least in London, an ESL 'professional' may only get 6 quid an hour in a language centre. If this is true, that is McDonald's money.

[Sashadroogie]

Private language schools in the UK do not really deal with refugees, as far as I know. Could be wrong about that. Actually, teaching English to refugees seems to be very much a closed shop, in terms of getting into it. FE colleges carry a lot of the load, and they require Deltas and Masters etc.

The pay, so my friends tell me, is far ahead of private language schools, but not fantastic in the grand scheme of things.

[vabeckele]

[Ramen]

In the US, I was working as a HR manager at a technical college fully funded by the US DOE. The school offered job skills as well as ESL training for immigrants. While all technical instructors were paid well (50k-70k), ESL teachers were getting bottom of the barrel chum change (25k-45k). We filled the technical instructor positions with applicants who had MS or Ph.D degrees. On ESL side, we tossed away all applications with Ph.D in arts and most MA. We hired mostly applicants with BA who had a few years of ESL teaching experience. In the academic field, ESL teachers are one of the least paid and appreciated in the US.

[LettersAthruZ]

[I'm With Stupid]

[skarper]

I saw adverts for 11 GBP and hour 12 years ago - serious EFL teaching work in London. Also - many 'schools' demand out of hours on call without pay which actually drops the rate below minimum wage - and is illegal FWIW.

6 is low but could be after tax and after adding in extra work like supervising trips etc.

Unlivable wages will still attract applicants in London. Married women often work for extra money. Some married men do too of course. Even single people will work for that and claim housing benefit or income support to make ends meet. Some have illegal side jobs and just want a bit of money and a cover job.

And it doesn't have to be hard work - plenty of people skating by on minimum effort even in prestigious and expensive UK schools - worked along side some such loafers myself. We tend to think all the problems in EFL are here or in Asia but most also apply in the UK too to a greater or lesser extent.

We're better off here as we can at least make ends meet and even have money left over for fun/saving. Even while only working 15 hours a week.

[Ramen]